Relationships at Work

On the inaugural Bail Yourself Out Podcast, successful entrepreneur, creator, and host Kandice Whitaker explores the complex minefield of workplace relationships. Joining Kandice as co-host is fellow businesswoman and former co-worker Yolanda Gore. Together, the hosts unpack proper handling of interpersonal relationships in the office and make them work for you.
 
On the inaugural Bail Yourself Out Podcast, successful entrepreneur, creator, and host Kandice Whitaker explores the complex minefield of workplace relationships. Joining Kandice as co-host is fellow businesswoman and former co-worker Yolanda Gore. Together, the hosts unpack proper handling of interpersonal relationships in the office and make them work for you. 

The littered landscape includes the well-known office "gossip," the "non-friend" friend, the ever-popular, oft-doomed work romance, and even the undeclared workplace enemy. Kandice and Yolanda share their perspectives and experiences navigating these varied situations and best practices for handling complex work scenarios. They also share their story of a working relationship that blossomed into a lasting friendship. Finally, they highlight the untrustworthy co-worker, share advice on setting boundaries, and pinpoint the one work relationship you should always avoid. If you're iffy about handling co-workers - this episode is a must. 

Reference notes:
Episode 1 - Relationships at Work Article             
Harvard Business Review "The Power of Work Friends"

BetterHelp.com - Definition of friendship 

https://www.betterhelp.com/advice/friendship/define-friend-a-good-understanding-of-the-friend-definition/#

Keep up with Kandice Whitaker and the BAIL Yourself Out Community Online
www.linktr.ee/bailyourselfoutpod
© 2023 Alpha and Omega Consulting Inc. All rights reserved.

Transcript

Kandice Whitaker: 0:00

Welcome to the Bail Yourself Out Happy Hour Podcast, where each week we'll help you navigate the corporate jungle. Here's your host, Kandice Whitaker Nope, It's happy hour. I'm your coworker Kandice with a K pull up a chair and your favorite drink for the bail yourself out Happy Hour is about to start now. Hey there happy hour family. I am so glad that you decided to stop by I am super excited about today's show. Today we're going to discuss work relationships, all kinds of relationships. And so let me tell you where this came from. A few months ago, I did a tik tok PSA warning, basically telling people not to assume your co workers are your friends. And that got so many different reactions. There were a good amount of people who said good advice, good thing to tell people. But I had a couple of people who felt differently. So I had conversations with my friends. And, man, the conversations were really interesting and varied. So I'm excited about what we're going to talk about today. You know, my reason for making the video was because when I started work, I was so new and I was green. And I naively thought that everybody I met were at work was a potential friend. I mean, I was 25 It was my first job. I was super excited and smiling all the time, that was totally a different person. But like most people, I learned that making new friends as an adult, it definitely can be hard. And you know what developing a friendship, it takes time. And work is no different. You know, the good thing is, people at work, you have the commonality of the shared work experience. And so a lot of great friendships are built off of some sort of commonality. So at least you're coming to the table with that, right. And it's definitely a great start. But my best advice, especially at work, is to be cautiously open to forming new relationships. So after the break, my former co worker and BFF Yolanda Gore, she's going to join the happy hour vibe and we're headed into after five deep dive into the many nuances of defining and making friendships, but also dating relationships. So we got the Tea on that at work. Welcome to the bail yourself out Happy Hour podcast. The bail acronym is used to outline the steps to implementing resilience in your life, B believe you can win A accept change as part of the journey. I Inventory strengths and L learn from what's happened together will impact the bail framework in action. Now back to the show. Welcome, welcome, Welcome to the happy hour podcast. And so of course today's show is about relationship at work. So I invited one of my former co workers and now you know what she is my dear friend, Miss Yolanda Gore. We originally met I don't know what more than 10 years ago? Yeah, probably a little more than 10 years. Oh, wow. Yeah, we worked a couple of different places together. Yeah. You know, interestingly enough, I'm not 100% certain we like hit it off When we first met. It wasn't like this, my friend the very first time we met. It was like it was gradual, right. It was a gradual thing. But I think that that worked out perfectly because it gave us a chance to kind of see what it's hitting for and look at one another see how we move in the workplace. And I think that you know that that worked out well for us. So yeah, you know what I really feel like, that's kind of how it should be. I think our personalities naturally you know, me cancer checking in, are you a Scorpio, we are, you know, those tough shell signs for those of y'all who are into astrology. But you know, once you get on the inside of us, like you're in, you know what I mean? And like, I think slow and steady is probably the way to go about it. I mean, honestly, when you first met me, right, corporate Kandice was in full swing. Yeah. And that's a whole different person, as you know, now, right? That's a different person. Right? So like, what was your

Yolanda Gore: 4:12

Like it was very Hey this is corporate Kandice. first impression of me when you first met? Tell the people. And at that time, I wasn't sure if we were going to end up being friends. I was just like, okay, she's very forthcoming. She's very competent. That was the one word I can definitely say, Well, when you and I met at work, I was like, okay, she comes across as being very confident because like, even in meetings, and again, I mentioned earlier about just watching how people are even in meetings, it's it was a, I said, what I said type of voice and not in a negative type of way, right? Not negative. Sometimes people take that to be so negative, but it was a very, this is what I said, and I'm not going back on what I said, because we've all been in meetings where someone will say something and then they're just like, someone else will counter what they say but maybe try to spin it and they're just like, oh yeah, but you are very much know that That's not what I said, this is what I said. I'll try to break it down for you and and using other words, here's what and it was very like she said what she said, very final, like stop playing with her. She said what she said. And I love that because it wasn't like full of malice or any type of like shade or anything. You always kept your voice very like jolly and cheerful. But it was like with a smile. Like I said, what I said,

Kandice Whitaker: 5:28

you know where that came from that I will tell you that story. What? When I was in college, I actually worked for a shoe store. Now, it's funny, as much as I hate sales, like sales, it makes me feel uncomfortable.

Yolanda Gore: 5:41

I mean, my shoes and you love shoes. So

Kandice Whitaker: 5:44

I still was like, I had a manager at the shoe store. And actually, I was one of their top salespeople, but I hate sales. Isn't that weird? Wow, he would say you can say whatever you want to say to people with a smile. Like he will say the craziest stuff to people. But he will say with a smile. So you'd be like, wait, what? Like it took you a minute to catch up to like,

Yolanda Gore: 6:05

you just write like, Hey, how are you doing? Those shoes are really ugly. Let's get you into something better today. And you're just like, Yeah, wait a minute. Like, yeah, those

Kandice Whitaker: 6:13

shoes definitely look like they've seen better days. Or like because it was an older woman store kind of cater to older women. He was like, you know, you'll probably be dead before you break them in. It was like, wait, what? Oh, my God momentarily passed away. What? Now I'll do that. Because that's like crazy. But, you know, that was a very early example. In my life. I think I was what 20, 19 When I worked there that? Oh, snap that works. Yeah, you know, because culturally, that's not something we do. No, no, that's not something we do hon ey, that's not something we do. But that very much prepared me for corporate Because I realized that, you know, other people do that. And they do it well, and you can't be caught off guard by the craziness. You know, I definitely think from our cultural perspective, we just not going to say too many words that are crazy, because we know that it's going to escalate. Right? Exactly. And because our culture is not predominant culture, you know, that kind of turns into anger. And it's like, no, we're not angry. You're talking crazy. And we're not supposed to say

Yolanda Gore: 7:20

nothing. Exactly. It wasn't like you were saying it in negative tones or anything it was just I said what I said. And that's just that's so very polite. So no one can say oh, she came off as having a nasty attitude. And I love that I love to see I was like, okay, she's very confident. She's very precise in what she said. She's very just using your words to be very concise, being very precise, and making sure that everybody is very clear on your stance on a particular topic. Because the people that we worked with, were very good with sometimes trying to sway you a bit or trying to kind of change what you were saying. But it's like, no, for the record. This is exactly what I'm saying in layman's terms. So that way, there's no confusion about this. And I remember being like, Oh snap. And again, for people of our hue.

Kandice Whitaker: 8:11

People of Color shout out to the season diaspora.

Yolanda Gore: 8:14

exactly to the to the season. But it was it was just amazing to see. And I was just like, all right, let me see. Like it was just more so me just watching. And I wasn't sure if we was if we were ever gonna hit it off. But I was like, let me just continue to watch. And another thing that I loved about my one of my first impressions of you is that you never worked with clicks of

Kandice Whitaker: 8:36

people. Oh, you know, that's my only child.

Yolanda Gore: 8:39

You are friendly with that. And that's one thing that I'm very good at. I can be friendly with everybody. It wasn't just like, oh, every time Kandice is with this person, she acts like this. It was like no, this is me, flatline. This is me, period. That's it. That's all and we're not I'm not going to deviate from that whether if I'm with this person or that person, bla bla bla. So I will just notice those things. And I'm just like, okay, she's, you know, very friendly with everybody, but never all up in people's faces. You know, sometimes you see people that's all up in the big boss's face. Kind of if you can kiss your own butt you don't kiss, nobody else's exactly, pretty much. And that that was another thing that I observed from you. So I guess I'm saying all of this to say is that my first impressions of you were positive. Right. But I think because we were able to take a step back and take first impressions of one another, not just that, just watch and see how folks move. That's exactly what built the friendship because at the end of the day, we've seen how many friendships from people who were successful, but at work, and then when they went their separate ways. They don't even speak to each other anymore. But I think for us, it took us some time to kind of step back. And I think that's what made the friendship blossom to what it is to be completely honest.

Kandice Whitaker: 9:51

I'm kind of taken aback by what you said. First of all, this is not pre planned, right? I didn't expect you to say that at all. And it's interesting to hear your perspective, a different perspective of how I was presenting in my life, because I know what was going on in my head at the time, and to hear how you're like you were confident. And I was like, really? Because I definitely wasn't feeling confident. But no, seriously, I wasn't feeling confident. One thing that my dad always kind of imparted into me is that you have to show up and show people how to treat you. If you sound like you know what you're talking about. Even if you're not 100% convinced, know, you get that expert persona, and then eventually your inside, will catch up with what you're giving up.

Yolanda Gore: 10:38

Agreed, especially in the environment that we worked in, could have fooled me. And I think from that people weren't sure of how to take you because in that particular role, you were working with people, and folks were kind of unsure of what box to put you in.

Kandice Whitaker: 10:53

never a box person. No, don't ever try that. That's wrong,

Yolanda Gore: 10:58

because it's kind of like, no exact No, exactly. Exactly, exactly. So it's kind of like, when we go to work, we work with tons of different women from so many different places and different backgrounds, cultures, races, whatever you want to call them. We work with a ton of different people. And I think when we see black women, and then hear you come this woman who was very final in what she's saying, right, but it's like, Dag, we can't even label her as aggressive. She's not really aggressive. She's saying everything with a smile, she moves very kindly with people. She's extremely polite. So what box can you put her in.

Kandice Whitaker: 11:35

So it sounds like when you're considering someone to be your friend, you look for qualities that you respect and admire. You're making some really great points. We're going to put a paperclip in it right here. And we'll come back right after the break. In our virtual Happy Hour community, the party never stops follow Kandice with a K Whitaker on social media, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, and Tiktok. Now back to the show. What are the signs that this is a person that I should be a friend with? I could tell you what my signs are, right? Like, I have definite red flags. So if you're not a red flag, then we can be cool. But even the red flag people, I'll give them the you know, preliminary courtesy or whatever. But I'm not going to stay as long like I just dip my toe in the pool and be like, Okay, peace. Here are the people that I stay away from because they're my red flag people, the office busy body, the person who knows everybody's business, because just like they tell you other people's business, they're going to tell yours. So if you show me that's who you are. I'm like, No. No. And then for me, the other one, the other red flag. And this doesn't always happen. But it's happened to me a couple of times. And I've learned that this is always strategic. When you first start, if there's a person who's way too friendly, and way too eager to be your friend. There's usually a motive. Agree, and it's usually not good. Agreed. experiences a good teacher, man, baby. I'm trying to save y'all some heartache. I'm trying to tell you if there's a person that's trying to little too hard, and you're like, kind of awkward. And

Yolanda Gore: 13:32

I think for us, that definitely worked well in our favor, because we were not like, Oh, we're now besties like literally was like a gradual buildup. As far as other signs to add people that talk too much. You got to be really careful about people that every time I see you talking, I haven't taught

Kandice Whitaker: 13:49

there was some distain in that.

Yolanda Gore: 13:52

I think that kind of falls in line with the Office Busybody person, because what are you talking about all the time I see you talk more than I see your work, it's usually one in the same. That means also to me as like, I'm going to avoid you like the plague. And also your work ethic is probably not good either. Because I see you talk more than you work.

Kandice Whitaker: 14:10

those be the people in a meeting, like I have multiple priorities and

Yolanda Gore: 14:14

a whole bunch of nothing.

Kandice Whitaker: 14:16

Yeah, no, these folks, you've heard em. Okay, so let me ask you this. Those are the people we stay away from. But for me, it's like everybody else. Yeah, the cool. We could be friends you have friend potential. But I don't think personally, it is wise to assume that people that you meet who are friendly are your friends. I agree. Personally, I agree. That's my best advice. I don't think you should just assume at work. We are basically under duress. Literally, situation, you're under duress. Right? So let's consider these roles more like strategic Wargaming right. So somebody who's friendly, might more be like an ali. Right, right. And you might get a little bit more friendly with a different person who wasn't an ali, maybe because y'all are in a hole together? Are you working on a project together?

Yolanda Gore: 15:04

Right, right survival of the fittest kind of thing. Like, Hey, we got thrown in here together. Let's just Let's just figure this out, right? And let's try to survive.

Kandice Whitaker: 15:12

Then of course, we have the clear enemies that we've already defined, right? But the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Yolanda Gore: 15:20

Right? So straight up Wargaming. That's crazy. We got to equate jobs and corporate so

Kandice Whitaker: 15:27

Do you know how much thought I've actually given this?

Yolanda Gore: 15:30

It's accurate. And so your point, though, the assumption that everyone we work with being a friend is such a childish assumption to me, there's nothing wrong with being friendly at work. I actually love friendly people at work, if we're looking at this from a war perspective, right? Like we're just surviving together, we're in hole together. Yeah, we're in the hole together, what's wrong with being nice and friendly and kind to one another and being considerate, but that does not mean that you know how that person lives outside of work, it doesn't mean that this soldier that's being portrayed in the hole with you is who they are outside of being in the hole, because right now we're adapting to our surroundings, right? Like you said, We're under duress, we're adapting surroundings of being in the workplace, particularly for black women we're black women in the workplace. So it's kind of like that's another topic in itself to even talk about all of these factors do not mean that who I'm portraying, or who I'm showing up as at work, that doesn't mean that's who I am outside of work. So to try to figure that out if someone is kind enough and friendly enough, being positive overall, and kind of traits that you're like, okay, this person might be chill with. I start with little things. What do we start with doing? Let's Let's run to lunch. Let's go get some good you know of any good food. I love people you know, you know all the food spots.

Kandice Whitaker: 16:43

I mean I'm a foodie. I'll be the first person to tell you I am definitely a food snob. And but Thursdays in the cafeteria, slap hard, remember, because they made sure. I don't know nothing about that. But wait, I want to go back to something you said a little bit earlier, because I thought it was super interesting. You said that to assume people at work are your friends is childish. Think about as Americans growing up and as socialized as children in school, because I was a teacher. I remember doing this. But now that I'm thinking about it, I'm like, you know, maybe this wasn't the best way to go about it. We're like, make friends. Yeah, right. Right. That's what you get. When you get into school, you make friends for 12 years in your formative life. If you go to school in the United States, you're told to come to school and make friends, then you graduate, and then you go to work. And baby, it ain't the same.

Yolanda Gore: 17:38

That's not the same thing. I'll double down on that it's childish but that is very naive to me. But again, it's a different level thinking, to your point, we've been pushed to be that person, oh, go to school, make friends, make friends. And then we're put in the workplace. And it's just like, this is not the place for friends. I'm not trying to say it's impossible. But if you go in there with the mindset that all of these people are my friend, you will be brokenhearted. And I remember I used to think like that, like, Oh, if I'm nice and I'm kind to folks, it'll be reciprocated back to me. And we, you know, for friendly relationships know, being friendly and having friendly relationships with people does not equate to them being a friend. But how I define friendship anyways

Kandice Whitaker: 18:18

Absolutely. It's definitely two different things. Because language is important. naive, feels better, childish, feels judgy and hurtful. And I think in our perspective, we didn't know better.

Yolanda Gore: 18:32

We didn't know. Yeah, I was definitely that person. Once upon a time, I didn't know better. We came from coming from school where they're saying, go to this place and make friends and I learned the hard way. So that's when I really started realizing like, friendly, that does not make these people, your friends. These are your co workers. And you need to maintain professional kind co worker relationships with these folks, because these are the people that you're in the hole with. We're only here because we got to do what we got to do. There are very few people that if I ever met you outside of work that I would even hang out with. I'm going

Kandice Whitaker: 19:03

to tell you a little story. My first real job. I was so excited. My grandmother was telling her friends at church where I work. Yes, I was so excited. And I remember going in there with the let me be friendly. Let me make friends. And people were so mean. Like I had never experienced people who were just like, so mean for no reason. Yeah. But I was all happy and 25 and just so excited with life. And I remember one of my co workers saying to me after I'd been there for like a month you don't smile as much as you used to. The rest is so bad. Like I was ready to write a pamphlet like the stages of grief that happened when you worked here.

Yolanda Gore: 19:52

You have since grown into knowing at this point like okay, we're always gonna have people that will try to classify us how kind or however We'd come off, you'd have some people try to classify us because we are black women in the workplace it is what it is what other people think

Kandice Whitaker: 20:07

that's not my responsibility. And it's not my problem. It's really what I like to encourage my clients to do, especially the younger ones, there's a part of me that doesn't want to take away their innocence because they're so sweet. And they haven't been exposed to the evil side of people yet, right? And not all people are evil, right? But there are some. So I encourage people to approach the situation like dating, I think if you approach your work life like dating, because that's such a familiar path. If you use those same skills at work, I think you'll be better. So when you first start with a date, when you meet somebody, you're kind, you're courteous to the best of your ability. But you're observing, right?

Yolanda Gore: 20:50

You should be, right? You should be anyway, I think as I get older, I'm really realizing that everything is relative. So even in the dating game, these are characteristics you should be watching. Absolutely.

Kandice Whitaker: 21:02

When you get that job, you need to know who's whos's at the zoo. And before you really start inserting yourself, you need to do that strategically, right?

Yolanda Gore: 21:12

Agreed. I agree wholeheartedly, especially for young people coming into the workplace. Be observant, specifically to those folks who feel like they have to go above and beyond to be noticed. That's not the case. Just come and do your job and do it to the best of your abilities. And trust me, you will get noticed.

Kandice Whitaker: 21:28

And friends will come. Right? Absolutely, absolutely. Keep it where you got it more talk about friends at work. After this. Yo, we want to hear from you fam drop us a line at bail yourself out. podcast@gmail.com. Now back to the show. I actually looked up what the definition is of a true friend never looked it up before in my life. betterhelp.com, which is like a therapy website had a list that I thought was really good. So here is a definition of a true friend from betterhelp.com. They said they have your back. They respond with empathy, perspective and honesty. I like that empathy. They accept you for you, despite your differences. Yes, they want what's best for you. Absolutely love that. Yep, they won't abandon you underline all of those words. Yeah, I was like, Oh, my God, this is such a comprehensive shortlist. That's pretty amazing. I agree with all of that. There's another article that came out really recently from the Harvard Business Review, and basically talking about how it's really beneficial for people to have a work best friend. And they even had this little list of how to make more friends at work. Now, as a person who has experienced the work BFF I definitely understand the benefits. And I want everybody listening to understand that I think work friends are amazing. I'm just saying this should not be an assumption. It is something that's earned. Agreed They're talking about there's greater productivity, more commitment to the workplace. And it's interesting, but of course, I'm not really surprised that Harvard Business Review would put all the benefits of interpersonal relationship to corporate.

Yolanda Gore: 23:22

Yeah. Did they have a con list at all? It sounds like they listed all the pros, but there weren't any cons listed

Kandice Whitaker: 23:28

to that? No, there weren't any cons listed to that, because it's definitely one sided. And I am pro work friends, I think it could make your work more meaningful. It'll definitely make the day go faster. But like I'm one of those people, dependent on the day. Hopefully, I'm not having a distracted day. Because don't come by and talk to me because now I'm not getting nothing done. Right? Then there's that

Yolanda Gore: 23:53

you got friends, especially when you get to know these folks, and they truly are your friends. We go through a lot talk about it. In life in general, as women as people, as human beings, we go through a lot in general. And I know that if I'm at work, and I see that my friend is stressed out about something, something's going on with her like, oh my god, Kandice, like you come in and you're just like, Hey, everyone, but as friends, we know each other more. So I'm looking at you like this every like what's going on? Like, yeah, I know, I'm gonna be distracted from work because I'm like, I gotta see what's going on with my friend. Right? Like I going by those definitions of friendship that you just mentioned. I want to go back. I want to make sure she feels like I have her back. I want to I want her to talk to me what's going on? Do you need another opinion? What is happening with you because you're not yourself today? Is there's something going on with your health. How are you feeling? And all of those things are distractions from work, right?

Kandice Whitaker: 24:46

I remember I had a job situation. There was a lady and she didn't even work in my department. I mean, I didn't really know her but you know, know somebody in the office and I had heard through the grapevine that her husband passed away and she wasn't even that old. She was like in her 40s Right. And people were so mean to her, I was apalled, you would hear people like, Oh, she's still walking around crying. And I didn't even know the lady. But I'd be like, You know what, you could come in my office and talk whenever you want. Like, we became friends from me doing that, because I was horrified. Like, I could not wrap my mind around the fact that people could not understand her grieving, like as a woman. Now in my 40s, woman of a certain age, I couldn't imagine being married to a man for 10, whatever years and then he dies and then being okay, and just going back to work. Like, where's your empathy guys? Right? But this is supposed to be your friend.

Yolanda Gore: 25:40

Empathy is a big thing coming full circle back to our topic here. Do we truly have friends in the workplace?

Kandice Whitaker: 25:47

That's my wholepoint, baby.

Yolanda Gore: 25:49

That's for anyone to sit there and say, Oh, she's still walking around crying. You are a horrible person in general, you got to say nothing else to me. I don't care if we share the same birthday. And we have similar interests. You are a horrible person, if you can sit there and see a situation like that and say, oh, yeah, she's still walking around crying, you're bitter. You probably got some internal demons that you're fighting that you need to get some help on. Because at the end of the day, how was she supposed to deal with the loss of a spouse?

Kandice Whitaker: 26:12

Before you say you need a therapist that enjoys the challenge? Yeah. Oh.

Yolanda Gore: 26:17

therapist has got to be patient with you, and really dig down and see what's going on in your membrane in all in your emotions.

Kandice Whitaker: 26:25

Like in real life? No, for real? Seriously.

Yolanda Gore: 26:28

That's a horrible thing to say. Kandice multiple

Kandice Whitaker: 26:28

that's what really made me see what a toxic people said it oh, place I was working in. Yeah, I was like yo Yana toxic in real life. I'm wondering why everybody around here is sick. Every other week. We taken up offerings for somebody they coming in and wheelchairs on gurneys, cots, IV IRB bags hanging, why everybody is sick, y'all, because you stressed out and displays

Yolanda Gore: 26:55

toxic, and those type of environments, I wouldn't be able to thrive. There's no friendship in those environments. That's straight, corporate, Yolanda, I'm coming in, I'm polite, I get the job done. And I leave. Those are the people

Kandice Whitaker: 27:06

that you avoid, like the plague, or like Yolanda, it was literally everybody, then you already know

Yolanda Gore: 27:11

that's a place that you will come in to do your job and get a paycheck. There are no chances of having outside relationships, or even inside relationships with those people there. I run away from people who lack empathy. I don't have to be in your shoes or have experienced the same things that you experienced it feel like man, as you two are what you mentioned earlier in your red flags list. Right? Exactly. And let me just come in, be friendly, be polite, do my job and go home, I won't even tell people in there what I have for dinner last night. That's how

Kandice Whitaker: 27:39

I became and I saw myself becoming a person that I didn't recognize. And that was a problem for me. So I want to relate all it is back to the framework that I use in coaching to teach people about resilience. So part of being resilient, I believe, is believing that you can do better. Oh, yeah, it took so many different scenarios in that particular organization for me to say, Ah, this ain't the Lord's will for my life as the best. As grandma was saying, this is not it. I was like, I do not believe that. This is my final destination. And this job that I got when I was 25 with a pension, and I don't even get pensions anymore. I was like, Yeah, I'm not gonna be able to do this. I gave my resignation. And those same people were like, Why are you leaving? And at that point, I didn't care. I was like, so it sucks here. And they were like, Oh, you're honest.

Yolanda Gore: 28:38

Yeah. But you know what, to your point about being resilient. Sometimes people are in an environment for so long, they don't even realize that they've lost themselves. They lack having that resilience to maintain your true self and maintain who you are, regardless of where you are, and what environment you're in. It's kind of like, oh, well, you're honest, no, you you've probably been here for 20 plus years, and you don't get sucked in by this monster that's in here that leading you to lack empathy and lack camaraderie toward your fellow teammates and co workers, you can say from adding your red flag lists from earlier people who lack resilience because they wait for me to you should be able to maintain who you are, regardless of where you are. And if that place like you realize for yourself, Kandice was like, This is not a good fit. Let me move on out.

Kandice Whitaker: 29:26

It took me seven years,

Yolanda Gore: 29:29

seven years, but you did it and part of it was it's not easy.

Kandice Whitaker: 29:32

It is not easy. I was like my grandma was so proud of me.

Yolanda Gore: 29:36

Yeah, but guess what, if you got that job, then you already know the series bigger and better out there. I'm always going to jobs, that mindset and you got to look back at every place you've ever worked at. There are lessons to be learned. There are people that you've met their barns single place, I got to get what I got to get from here and then it's time to move on.

Kandice Whitaker: 29:54

That's also part of resilience as well being able to take from that change. Absolutely. What did I learn? What could I use? What could I have done differently? Exactly. That's how we constantly grow and evolve and change into better people.

Yolanda Gore: 30:08

Self Assessment is a big part of that people really need to make sure that they understand.

Pierce Taylor: 30:16

the bail yourself out Happy Hour podcasts. The bail acronym is used to outline the steps to implementing resilience in your life. B Believe you can win a accept change as part of the journey clock I inventory strengths, and L learn from what's happening together will impact the bail framework in action. Now back to the show.

Kandice Whitaker: 30:35

While we're on relationships, I actually want to downshift into talking about dating at work. We talk about friendships, but I know we also have the Tea on quite a few dating relationships we saw at work. I remember I had a colleague she would talk about all the time, how the place that she worked out before, female boss and her female coworker both left their husbands for each other. I was like, Oh, hot tea, honey

Yolanda Gore: 31:03

all day. That's third degree burns.

Kandice Whitaker: 31:07

Apparently, it's not that uncommon. But wait. In December 2022, CNBC, they published an article that says 75% of employees, seven five have had an office romance. Seven, five ready,

Yolanda Gore: 31:22

I work three quarters.

Kandice Whitaker: 31:24

I mean, maybe my industry is mostly women. I'm not sure what's happening here. 75 That seems crazy to me,

Yolanda Gore: 31:30

Kandice, I've had the pleasure of working with extremely beautiful men. I've had the pleasure of working with a few very handsome men. Never did I ever consider, hey, let me forge that type of relationship with oh, maybe we can say I have a certain level of bias because I've been in such a long relationship with my spouse. Right. And he and I have been rocking hard for for years. So I never was looking at it like that. Shout out to James shout out to James.

Kandice Whitaker: 32:02

He deserves honorable mention.

Yolanda Gore: 32:03

That's my guy. And we've been rocking forever. Hashtag goals. We are now at the point in our lives. We're very mature enough to know Kandice at work, We're not gonna be lollygagging and talking to one another because again, we're years deep in this at this point, right. So it was like girl, I'll catch up with you afterwards. Real separate. I can't imagine seeing James Right. He's over there at his desk. I'm at my desk and Look look, I'm sceaming right. And then imagine if another female at the workplace finds him attractive. And then I see her mosey her little cute self over to his desk. And she's leaning all over him. And she's looking Oh, that is a immediate conflict. Look you may as well

Kandice Whitaker: 32:42

just go on and call the police.

Yolanda Gore: 32:46

We might as well because I've seen women at work fawn over men, and I've seen them get a little too touchy. We know that that's against HR policies. But I've seen

Kandice Whitaker: 32:56

what's the problem? See if nobody reports it, then there's that

Yolanda Gore: 33:00

exactly right. But see, if she doesn't know that James and I are in a relationship. She's just looking at it like okay, here's this this attractive guy, and I'm going to try to you know, so now it's like the heat's on because him knowing me, and then seeing her it's like, we're all about to lose our jobs. At this point,

Kandice Whitaker: 33:17

Yolanda, there are 8 billion with a B people on earth. Why in the world? Must you date somebody at work? Surely there's somebody else. I guess, when you're

Yolanda Gore: 33:28

working with folks for a long period of time, it's kind of like you said, we're in the hole, we're under duress together, and you start forming these bonds, whatever your vices, whoever you're dating, whatever you whatever your flow is, I think people start to form these bonds with people. But for me, personally, I will never advise that anyone have a romantic relationship. There are things that HR uses called Love contracts, love contracts are a thing when HR has to develop love contracts. To me, that's a problem. If we just had an argument this morning about something and then I see you at work again, going full circle back to my example earlier, you and I are friends, I work I care about you. I want to make sure everything's going well with you what's going on? How's everything, you're of course gonna feel like that about someone that you're romantically dealing with at work. So how are you going to be able to focus on work? Absolutely, right. So especially if you see certain things going on, let's say if you're a manager or director or a VP, and then you hear about

Kandice Whitaker: 34:20

Layoffs, you better go on give me 411.

Yolanda Gore: 34:22

What exactly so you're now risking your own professional career meet me in the stairwell on the fourth floor. You're risking your own professional career to share information with your significant other. There's too many different areas for things to go negatively left that I would not advise. Absolutely not. I was really

Kandice Whitaker: 34:43

shocked by the 75% that throw me off because that's most right. And the only thing that I've ever heard from my folks, and maybe it's regional. I'm from New York, you start talking about dating at work, everybody I know they go say what you don't Shit where you eat.

Yolanda Gore: 35:01

If I felt that strongly for someone? I'm going to get another job? Oh, wow. I'm very big on your professionalism at work and your professional stature, how you're coming off at work. Romantic, Yolanda, like James and Yolanda is different from corporate at work Yolanda.

Kandice Whitaker: 35:16

as it should be at work, right? They're different.

Yolanda Gore: 35:20

And I can't I can't mesh those two together. Yeah, I can't unless he works. And maybe for the same company, but on a different floor. In a different building somewhere. That's fine. But I can't see me being able to focus on everything I do at work. You two cubes over? Yeah, no, because romantic Yolanda is going to come out. And that's where you hear these scenarios about people's sexual activities at work. To your point earlier, you're definitely shitting where you eat, and that's not good. Like you're now having sexual romantic relationships with people at work in the parking lot your name where I worked at where this happened. I'm not gonna say it, but I kid you not everybody knew everybody knew. I walked in, everybody know, two people coming out the broom cupboard.

Kandice Whitaker: 36:08

Using a janitor's closet with a dirty mops,

Yolanda Gore: 36:11

and the janitor's closet, where there's bleach and all types of stuff. I was at the time I was working at a large hospital system, I came into the room and the cupboard or the closet was in the room, and they both are stumbling out. He's buttoning up his pants and she's rearranging her shirt and they're just

Kandice Whitaker: 36:29

like, on the closet smelling like asses and elbows and

Yolanda Gore: 36:33

pine sol. Like What? So they're coming out and they're looking at me, and I'm looking at them and I just walked out when I tell you they were on pins and needles with me.

Kandice Whitaker: 36:43

JUMPY as a hooker in church. Did you snitch

Yolanda Gore: 36:46

I am not that. So how to get out?

Kandice Whitaker: 36:49

Did anybody else see them?

Yolanda Gore: 36:51

I didn't. So they did this multiple times. They weren't being careful, Kandice. Oh my God. They have that wasn't their first time. I am not the type of person that worked that anytime I see something, I feel like I need to say something if there's an imminent danger than if you're not a Karen, essentially. Yeah. Because I'm like, it makes me uncomfortable to go say hey, HR I just saw these two people having you know, in the broom cupboard. I'm not doing that. But they were very nervous around me. literally pull both of them to the side. Like Listen, what y'all do and your relationship? Yeah, grown people. You are consenting adult. This is what y'all do. I advise that you don't do what at work because everybody's not like me.

Kandice Whitaker: 37:27

they married or something. No, like, what's the impetus to do it at work?

Yolanda Gore: 37:31

I don't know. Now we're talking about romantic, Kandice, or romantic Yolanda, and we don't know, okay, you

Kandice Whitaker: 37:37

trying to get a little thrill? Whatever, whatever. Exactly. Oh, please.

Yolanda Gore: 37:42

That's what I mean, your romantic and your sexual self. I know. For me, personally, that's a totally different, like,

Kandice Whitaker: 37:47

why can't you get a hotel at lunchtime, though? Thanks.

Yolanda Gore: 37:50

So you don't lose your job. 75% is a very high number to me. I know that thrill seeking Yolanda Yolanda and James have been together for over 10 years. So yeah, we might be wild to do something like that. We're gonna completely separate those fears. There's no way I told them, I said, you know, folks are buzzing around the office, they're assuming things about you, two. And I said, everyone's not like me. I'm not running to HR saying, Hey, I saw them doing XYZ, because I don't care to do that. But everyone's not like me. So you need to be extremely careful. And she ended up finding a job somewhere else. And he ended up staying, and that to me was the best way to go about it. But did they ever get in trouble? They like HR find out? Nope. To my understanding, they never got in trouble. When was the article

Kandice Whitaker: 38:33

December judges passed?

Yolanda Gore: 38:37

Right? I'm having a hard time. 75% is very hard, but that's a lot. But but but people are now living this YOLO life, Kandice.

Kandice Whitaker: 38:48

Since the pandemic. The second paragraph starts by a career coach saying this is generally not a good idea. Yeah, yeah. urges understandable. Like, I mean, I get it if you had the experience while I worked with anybody that I was like, okay, but let's really think about this seriously, especially if this is a career job, something that you've worked kind of hard to get to. Right. There's a lot of things on the line here. There's your professionalism, which could be kind of messed up if you mess up what people say about you. Now you can't get a reference right? Because you done showed out. And I get thrill I like thrill I like nasty. Nasty, but you mess it up my bag that I've worked very hard for but somebody's sons ashy penis. Why can't we do this at another time? Think!

Yolanda Gore: 39:46

Folks are not able to handle that Kandice.

Kandice Whitaker: 39:49

I get it is fun. Get in your car and go around the corner to the park like My goodness. Don't do this at work.

Yolanda Gore: 39:56

Just don't even if they are getting in their car and going Around the corner I already know how I get down right? If me and James get called we go around the corner we coming back this certain energy that we given off when we come back to the office. Oh yeah oh yeah, you're saying this what I will say I would advise against it. I don't care if you work at McDonald's. I'm not gonna risk my safety because if things go left you throw that hot fish fry oil on my back because you mad? No, just don't do it. Do not do go to another McDonald's,

Kandice Whitaker: 40:29

not grits? No seriously.

Yolanda Gore: 40:33

a lot of people I'm realizing as we're starting to see the world change post pandemic will have a hard time managing their emotions, Kandice. So you couple that with dealing with the stresses of work, and then if you guys potentially do break up, and then having to deal with that, and then having to see the person that you have all these emotional feelings for smiling in other people's faces. People don't manage their emotions well enough to deal with this.

Kandice Whitaker: 41:00

No, most people really don't. They just really don't like, the article kind of ends with some things that I think are far fetched to say the least. So the article basically ends with steps to take if you enter an office romance relationship. Number one is keep the relationship out of the office, which is like nine to impossible, which is why you should not get together if you work together exactly right? And then number two, is talk about the breakup. Well what happens if the person you decide to date acts like one of my exes and just ghost you.

Yolanda Gore: 41:40

And then meanwhile, you work two cubicles down from him, you see him coming to work every single day, every single time every day. And that's what I mean when I say people are not emotionally mature enough even you know me and I consider myself very mature individual. When I love I love hard. So I can't imagine me seeing James a couple cubicles down. This is a person that I'm sharing my life with, I'm sharing my body with I'm sharing all of my emotional baggage, all the things I've been through in the past I'm dealing with with this person. And all of a sudden, we're done. But meanwhile, I still see you two cubicles down and I see you and over there. I just want to

Kandice Whitaker: 42:14

think about this life. emotional maturity is certainly part of it. Right? But you're in a relationship, I will say and I'm not a psychologist, but I am a person who has been through some crap, right. So your emotional maturity, I think it has a level. And as long as everything is fine, you act and fine, and you're operating in the confines of who you are. Add some stress on that, right, your emotional maturity is gonna go down, you don't act real ignorant, you're gonna act outside of yourself, because that's what happens when trauma occurs.

Yolanda Gore: 42:46

not worth it. Right now you are here looking crazy. Especially if the two individuals were successful with keeping their relationship on the low, then they break up. And then next thing you know, you come into the office, they're gonna be like, oh, yeah, Yolanda, usually this she just start bugging. I don't know what's happening with her. She's this this, this, she's angry. Let's say these are just workplace flings. That's even worse. Because guess what you have in the workplace fling with this beautiful, over six foot chocolate man, he's having a workplace fling with me, and then girl down a cubicle finds him attractive. So she wants to have a workplace fling with him. We're not bound with one another. These are just little sexual things that we're having. So the next thing you know, this man is having flings with various people in the office. We're not even going to talk about what that means. Now all the women in the office share a common bond, which is this man. It's just messy. It's no,

Kandice Whitaker: 43:39

they share a trauma. Exactly. I actually have a story for that I know of a person who basically in that situation, she knowingly married the dude who basically was the rooster in the henhouse. He had been with Dasha and Dancer and Prancer Nam, married this man, and then was upset when he was talking to one of his Tribe Called Quest at work. I was like, You know what, I don't like complications in my life. And this whole scenario just seems inherent to complication. I don't even understand what made you think this was a good idea. And I was trying not to judge, but

Yolanda Gore: 44:20

you actually just made a really good point. You actually just said something that kind of resonated with me a bit 75% You just said I'm not the type of person that likes having complications in my life. So this is a scenario that you would avoid, like the plague. Me too, right? But then that's making me think, How can you go into these as fully grown people and I'm hoping that somebody listens to this and says, Alright, let me listen to these. Oh, geez. They they, they

Kandice Whitaker: 44:48

Oh, jeez.

Yolanda Gore: 44:48

Yeah, like, Let me listen to that. But for folks who are older, why would you want to further complicate your life? So my thing is, you're telling me that you're the type of person that likes complicated situations and likes complicated scenarios, we all have

Kandice Whitaker: 45:01

access to Maury, and eternity core, all of these things, it tells you a certain thing about people, some people are indiscriminate,

Yolanda Gore: 45:12

it tells me a lot about a person in general, especially when you are someone that's older. So when I see folks that are younger, like maybe age don't mean nothing older, meaning you have more experience in the workplace, meaning that you got some years or you put on realizing that

Kandice Whitaker: 45:27

don't mean they learned anything. That's the problem. This is true, Your assumption is that they've taken something, they saw something, and they learned, there's a lot of people that don't process on that level. For whatever reason, I am the type of person, I definitely am risk averse, right? So that's why a workplace relationship will never be my portion. But like, I'm the type of person if you know something, and you know that I'm going down a road, there's something you can tell me to help me. Please tell me, please tell me you know why? Because if I find out later, you know, when you didn't tell me now I'm feeling away about you. We ain't friends. As far as I'm concerned.

Yolanda Gore: 46:08

Well, whoever's listen to this, if you have gone down that road, just the whole room, just stop saying it. My thing is, if I care that much about you, I'm gonna go look for another job because I want to keep this going. I want to keep whatever we have, I want to keep it as a thing. I want to keep it going. But I already know that I don't want to complicate things in the workplace, I will be that person to say, I'm gonna go find another position. And I know that to some people's like, oh, that's crazy. That's no to me. There's plenty of jobs out there. Exactly. 75%. That's a startling number. I keep going back to that, because I'm in disbelief in the spirit of the air. Is that live? YOLO? do this do that just live freely?

Kandice Whitaker: 46:44

What a grandma say? Everything that's lawful, is not expedient. Everything you can do doesn't mean it's something.

Yolanda Gore: 46:56

Right? That is so right. And I feel like people are just in this place where they feel like that risk is worth it. And but to add to that way you are supposed to break up now you're dealing with a different side of that person than you were dealing with. And that's the part that I'm thinking from a safety standpoint, right? If we have we're going back to what I said earlier. So there are a lot of people that are emotionally unhinged, then we were dealing with a breakup with someone that we work with, are you saying we're living in different times? Are you safe? Do you feel safe? That person might feel like they want to come back to where they want to retaliate? They might want to retaliate by coming for your job? What if they're the type person that says, you know, what, if you're not together with me, or we're not together, we both not going to have a job.

Kandice Whitaker: 47:40

And people are crazy. And real life, the person that you're dealing with post breakup totally different. So I got another story in that regard. I know of a person who she knew her husband was doing his thing. So she did her thing too. I was like, Okay, that's a choice, non judgmental zone here. Okay, she did her thing too. But at the time, we were in our late 20s, early 30s. And she was dealing with this dude who was like 19 years old. And he became a stalker, because apparently, she put that ancient code on em.

Yolanda Gore: 48:16

it, got my groove back, like, I'm Stella.

Kandice Whitaker: 48:19

So he became a stalker. And she was working for American Express. He kept calling her job and kept coming up to her job and all this foolishness. And they said, You know what, The Lord bless you and keep you, you don't need to come back. Here's your check in cash, and escort her out that day. So, back to my original premise is somebody's ashy penis worth this is it. And don't get me wrong. When you're in a relationship and everything is good. It is so wonderful, if you experiences in life that are better. You know, when you're in a relationship with somebody and you're just vibing and you're loving each other and things are good. Like I really feel like those are one of the god experiences that we experience on this side of heaven. I agree. To me when you have somebody that loves you, and you love them, if you really stop and think about even like you know what, there is a God somewhere. Absolutely, there are few experiences in life that equate to that so I definitely am not downplaying the power and I definitely believe in it. But you can't get caught up at a context and mess up what you want to do for your life. Absolutely for something that may or may not happen and I definitely like what you said before I would look for another job or you know, see if they're interested in going into another job because not the nothing like if you are in a dating situation and you really want to try it out why not? There are plenty of jobs out there any way that you can do it.

Yolanda Gore: 49:51

Being able to experience love and and being in a positive relationship, a non toxic relationship and the beautiful thing just being an overall positive relationship and it's I healthy relationship that to me is very much worth it to say I don't want us to mess up our bag. I'm gonna go find another, let's both start applying out whoever let's be adamant about finding separate jobs so that way this can continue on to me, that's more than worth it.

Kandice Whitaker: 50:15

But there's no guarantee.

Yolanda Gore: 50:19

There's not right. That's the problem, right? There's no guarantee in life.

Kandice Whitaker: 50:23

And it's not like a scary or a bitter thing. I would just caution anybody who would make that decision, make sure that you're making that decision for you. Well, I was gonna get me a new job anyway. Or I would say, if there's somebody you like, why can't you guys just be friends? Until it makes sense?

Yolanda Gore: 50:42

I think that part is going to be harder, because when people start developing feelings for one another, it's it's obviously more than friendships. That's fine. I looked at that as a for me thing. I want this person for me. And I feel like I'm not trying to mess up my bag. So let me take care of me. So we can still be I mean, let me take care of me by going to get another job and we can still be together because I still want to be with you. I'm not about to mess up my money, my career, my recommendation my referrals, like no. Can you imagine getting fired from a place for romantic workplace relationships that is against HR code

Kandice Whitaker: 51:21

person could turn into a stalker like you don't know how to jump, go and work out. It's too big of a risk.

Yolanda Gore: 51:27

Exactly. To turn violent. What if it triggers a violent reaction if y'all break up? I've witnessed a lot of workplace flings a lot of workplace relationships. The only ones that I have seen be successful, meaning that they are still together. And so a positive, healthy relationships are those who decided one has to leave and one can stay or I've seen some wild stuff. I'm talking emails sent about people's personal business because of a bad breakup get nasty is a different side of you, when your emotions are being put in a different place.

Kandice Whitaker: 52:00

They know what you do at work, they know your work secret. Some people are very petty. Exactly. That's a certain level of Wackness when you break up, and then you start telling other people what a person has confided in you like that's wack. Now you take that to your grave. This also happens in friendships, too. Yeah, some

Yolanda Gore: 52:20

people are wack, you're right. Some people are wack, some people are petty. And that's why I always say you gotta be careful. From a relationship standpoint, that's heavy. That happens with friendships to you, and oh, girl, not friends, no more. Next thing, you know, your personal business is starting to be out there. You know what I mean? Because you as a person or not that type person, this is why you and I hit it off well. And if we did have a Fallout, it's not like everybody's going to know, Kandice's business, everybody's not gonna know your business, because that's just not who we are. As people, you got to really take a step back and see who people are as people before you jump into any type of relationship with it.

Kandice Whitaker: 52:54

Well, I think it all kind of goes back to the beginning, right? You have to respect your place of business, right as that it is your place of business and how you approach it is different. Absolutely. It is not a place where you potentially hook up. It is not a place where everybody is your friend, right, or your colleague, and they should be treated with a certain level of deference and respect. Certainly, you can become friends. But that's something that's earned. If you decide to go with a relationship. Understand that there definitely are some cons and maybe some unintended consequences. That could happen as a result. Yeah, you know, we could totally be wrong, and it could totally work out. I'm sure there are some of those people as well. I am just not open to that level of risk. That's just me. But listen, if you're going in eyes wide open, and you're cool with it. At the end of the day, it makes very interesting conversation. I heard a quote recently, and it's really has changed my life. And it's something I've been thinking about a lot, how you spend your days is how you spend your life. And so you want to be intentional about those decisions that you're making. This has been a wonderful conversation. I want to thank my guests. One of my best friends at this point. Yolanda Gore, I love you so much. We got to have you back. This was a great conversation.

Yolanda Gore: 54:21

I love you too. Thank you for having me.

Kandice Whitaker: 54:26

Wasn't that a great interview? Hold up before you grab your hat and head out. Make your way to facebook.com and join the Kandice with a K Whitaker's Facebook group. That's where you can find our free Happy Hour community, luxuriating and chatting. Thank you for listening. And if you enjoyed the show, please leave a review. That's how we keep the lights on. If you're on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, feel free to shoot me a message and say Hey, girl, hey, I'm Kandice with the K Whitaker and I would love to hear from you. And with that, I love you. And I mean, you know why? Because there are people In the world who hate for no reason I choose to love for no reason. I believe as the great Martin Luther King Jr. said pain is too great a burden to bear and I choose to love peace y'all be great!