Becoming You

This week on the Bail Yourself Out podcast, host Kandice Whitaker is joined by a fellow content creator, photographer, published writer, and owner of  Carmichael Filmworks, Aaron Lloyd. The hosts discuss boogeyman words, corporate upheaval and how to respond to it, the "great resignation," what it is and how it currently affects employment, and the HBCU vs. PWI debate. Is one educational choice better than the other? What are the differences between the two collegiate worlds? And is it possible to determine if there's one answer for students of color? This lively discussion covers all the bases, will spark debate between HBCU and PWI alums, and ultimately leave the listener satisfied. 

 This week on the Bail Yourself Out podcast, host Kandice Whitaker is joined by a fellow content creator, photographer, published writer, and owner of  Carmichael Filmworks, Aaron Lloyd, as they examine the factors it takes to manifest your best business self. How to strive when drastic change is on the corporate agenda, and a surefire way to undermine your prospects during the upheaval. 

The hosts also reflect on this time of drastic change, spurred by a disillusioned workforce, the pandemic, and the "great resignation" that followed; they discuss the displeasure of Home Depot co-founder and billionaire Bernie Marcus as he takes issue with employees in the current workforce. Their work habits, supposed political mindset, and overall attitude toward employment. Does Marcus have a point? Kandice and Aaron share their thoughts on Bernie Marcus and his beliefs on the workforce. They also discuss whether these ideas offer clarity on the opinions of other corporate employers about their employees. 

Finally, the hosts examine the difference between attending a predominately white institution (PWI) and a historically black college or university (HBCU). As they compare and contrast Aarons' Howard University HBCU experience and  Kandices' PWI Purchase College experience. They discuss dorm life differences, reinventing yourself, and the difficulties of college life for some. Parents of college prep students preparing to choose an institution will love the gems dropped for consideration in this episode. 

Episode 2 - Becoming You Article
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2022/08/28/what-is-hbcu-black-college-university/10240301002/

Keep up with Kandice Whitaker and the BAIL Yourself Out Community Online
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Transcript

Kandice Whitaker: 0:01

Welcome to the Bail yourself Out Happy Hour Podcast, where each week we'll help you navigate the corporate jungle. Here's your host, Kandice Whitaker. Nope, it's happy hour. I'm your coworker Kandice with the K pull up a chair and your favorite drink for the bail yourself out Happy Hour is about to start now. Hey there Hey, I am so glad you decided to join me at our spot, the happy hour lounge and you know what we're going to chat about inventory and self assessment today. Let me just start with the fact that I hate that self assessment has such a bad rap because of all the related negative connotation. But you know what? It's important. I define self assessment as learning about yourself. I think it's an objective review of your way of being in the world. And you know what, how we show up in the world is shaped by many unique factors, your childhood, your heritage, your family, wherever you went to school or not. It's basically the lens through which you see the world. In order to grow as a person. It's important to honestly critically evaluate yourself on a regular basis so you can better strategize for your future. Honestly, it's not my favorite thing to do. But I perform self assessments all the time because I understand the connection between self assessment and personal growth. Think about the people who we admire in our community. The ones who exemplify class and grace for me is the incomparable Maya Angelou, rest in peace. Oprah Winfrey, of course, Felicia Rashad, Michelle Obama, Jane Van Zandt, all of these women are exceptional for many reasons. But do you really think with all the class and grace that they've shown in the public eye for all of these years, they don't think about how they're reacting to situations, they always show up with respect, dignity and confidence. Not everybody likes them, but that seemingly has no effect on how they consistently show up. Imagine what we would think about Oprah if she was petty, I believe that is a conscious choice to present as cobbling collected it has to be intentional. Here's the truth to be invited in certain spaces, you have to belong. And belonging sometimes looks like you know how to act. It has nothing to do with your education or background. I know plenty of people who are educated who don't know how to act. And I'm sure you do, too. In certain rooms, you have to know how to display a certain level of dignity, decorum and grace, thus, underlining the importance of being intentional on how you show up in the world because that decision is directly tied to your destiny. Imagine if Michelle Obama started popping off Real Housewives star whenever ridiculous, people made hateful comments about her appearance, literally, they always talking about her. Let's be clear, I'm not saying that ignoring stupidity is easy. But I've learned that not everything deserves your attention Furthermore, nor does it deserve your response, as my grandmother would say, See and don't see hear and don't hear a response is your choice. And ultimately, that choice says more about you than it does about the other person. So let's go back to talk about self assessment. I know it can be scary, but it's necessary, y'all. Self inventory is directly related to self assessment. And in my bail framework for resilience, the I is for inventory, and what's the inventory, but it's basically a list of all your strengths, and the strengths that are available to you within your network and your tribe that you can leverage. Y'all know, I was born in New York, raised on Long Island, and my upbringing has definitely influenced my worldview on many things. As a woman of a certain age, I've had the experience of growing up in a very culturally diverse and my opinion, accepting place. Over time I learned my home New York, for better or for worse is really different than a lot of other places in the United States. As a traveling consultant, I've had the privilege of working and visiting many different states. And you know what that's really made me appreciate the value of the black community, and also predominantly black spaces and understand their necessity. So in that vein, as many of you I have also heard the big debate HBCU versus PWI. If you know, you know, folks want to know is it more beneficial for a person of color as a black person to attend a historically black college or HBCU or a predominantly white college also known as a PWI people on either side of the debate, they feel really strongly. They talk about all kinds of things, quality of the education, the network that you'll get after graduation, but you know what I believe ultimately, that decision is deeply personal. I can tell you I attended a PWI purchase college shout out to purchase college. And you know what? I did that because it was like 45 minutes from my front door. It was far enough away for me to be considered away to college, but it was within two train rides home. And so that was super important. For me, I didn't want to go away. I didn't want to go too far. I knew about historically black colleges, but I really didn't know too much. My only experience was growing up in the AME Church, we had a summer conference, shout out to Delaware State at the historically black college there in Dover, Delaware, as far as I knew that was the closest one to my house, and it was like four hours away. And in the 90s in the world of dial up Greyhound bus and long distance phone calls, it was quite a scary proposition to talk about going four hours away, because wasn't nobody paying for you to call there was no expedient no Priceline to get a cheap flight. That was a thing, and it would have been a huge undertaking. And so that's why I made my decision. But hindsight being 2020 You know, I kind of wish I went to a historically black college and here's why the people I know who went to historically black colleges, they are different, and they're different, in a good way. I feel like they have a greater sense of their role in the community. And of course, I'm talking about the black community. And I think they're more politically astute. They're also more connected to their school long after graduation. And there's a sense of pride tied to their alma mater, which typically only exists in the PWI college world in the ivy elite. So I'm super excited to introduce our guest co host in the happy hour lounge today. Multitalented Aaron Lloyd who is a Howard freelance writer, photographer owner of Carmichael film works co host of my mic sounds nice podcast but most importantly my cousin and right after the break, you're gonna meet him keep it where you got it.

Pierce Taylor: 6:34

Welcome to the bail yourself out Happy Hour podcast the Bail acronym is used to outline the steps to implementing resilience in your life B believe you can win A accept change as part of the journey I inventory strengths and L learn from what's happened. Together, we'll unpack the bail framework in action. Now back to the show.

Kandice Whitaker: 6:51

Hey, there, I am super excited to have my guest today Aaron Lloyd. But I wanted to kind of get his feedback on Article, the former home depot president is out here in the streets in Fortune giving a commentary on the great resignation. So for those of you who don't know, the great resignation is kind of the time period that happened after COVID When people were working from home and whatnot. And they decided that they didn't like their job for whatever reason, a lot of people moved to different positions. A lot of people just flat out quit. A lot of people started their own companies. And I think that was kind of due to everybody reevaluating their lives. I think that was one thing that was part of it. But I think the one thing that is continually missing from the conversation about the great resignation is a lot of people die. For real a lot of people die. So they're not coming back to work. This wasn't a resignation, they actually die from COVID. So you have this billionaire co founder. Yes, former co founder of Home Depot, Bernie Marcus, he says that we're dealing with this labor shortage because of socialism. What's wrong with socialism? You don't like the library? You don't like the police? What's wrong with socialism? Why is that a bad word? And woke people which I feel like is now a new pejorative since when is woke bad? Yes, woke people have taken over the world. Actually, we even got who asked? During a press conference this week at the White House is President Biden woke again, what has been well been a bad thing. Like I'm confused by that. I know I've said a whole lot of things. So I'm gonna pause right there.

Aaron Lloyd: 8:34

Woke is the new CRT is the new boogeyman word. I'll tell you what I do think about this co founder is amazing. In which we're in a country where wages have been stagnant since the 70s. Complete stagnation. However, productivity is up like 60% or something like that. And wages have increased like 17%. So we're clearly not paying people what they deserve. And I found it funny Kandice that it was the co founder of Home Depot, a box store that never had enough people in it. Everyone knows you're going home depot, and you can't find the work at LP, frankly, you don't even hire enough people to man your stores. And you're the one talking about people aren't willing to work. I mean, it's just utterly ridiculous. There's probably a few people who work in a typical home depot that can make a living wage when they can have a mortgage, own a car, try and save some money for retirement and put a kid to college. There's probably maybe management in Home Depot, maybe the upper management, but the average home depot worker couldn't do that. So I think it's clear that this all happened during the pandemic. So the pandemic is the primary reason that allowed people to reevaluate their life like you said, so I just think it's a lot of gold from a billionaire.

Kandice Whitaker: 9:55

Truly when you go into Home Depot. This is not a place where you go and actually look for customer service, you're right. There is never any one around. I have a strategy when I go into Home Depot actually. And with this little comment, it makes me want to go to Lowe's, even though you're like, you know what Lowe's is across the street, I'm good. Even though your former, this is unacceptable. And I think this is an example of one of the many micro aggressions that a person of color. Think about this. He did say this sitting at home in front of the fireplace with his people. This is the cleaned up version that he thought was okay to come out in public in flow. Imagine what he actually said. And this is the example of the kind of thought process and the kind of very overt racism, I mean, he's just flat out there with it, that people who are working have to deal with and basically this billionaire is said, You should be happy with what you have.

Aaron Lloyd: 10:51

Yeah, you don't get to evaluate your own self worth. You don't get to value what you think you should be paid or what is worth your time. No, you're just supposed to show up in corporate America, be happy with whatever we give you. Whatever we decide is enough, regardless of the fact that we're making more money than we've ever made. That doesn't matter. He even said it in the article. He cares about his stockholders, and the board for the most part, more white people who are rich. He didn't say he cared about the workers. He said he cared about his stockholders. That is a man that is so clueless and completely blinded what he said. And you see when using a lot of boogey man words, we'll see you CRT, they started with liberal in the late 80s. The five

Kandice Whitaker: 11:35

CRT for those who are listening who might not know what CRT is, what a CRT is

Aaron Lloyd: 11:39

critical race theory, which is a graduate level law school level theory that systematic courses are responsible for oppression in America, but it's done through law. And it's done through legal systems that ensure that racism will continue in a systemic manner. What has happened is that graduate level law school course, that's never taught in college, or in high school, or Junior High and Elementary School, because too complicated, has been hijacked, and said that we're teaching our children CRT, which is foolish. So it's a boogeyman word. But like I was saying, liberal is where it started in the late 80s. And 85, you can say you were a liberal, and it wasn't a bad thing. By 89, you were the Devil, if you are a liberal, and they continue, they continue to do that. They brand words, and they turn it into a negative thing. So that nobody wants to be. So woke is the new one.

Kandice Whitaker: 12:42

And language is so important in shaping society and in shaping how people think about things. And I think what's so interesting with the advent of social media, with people who otherwise would have been ignored, right? What marginalized populations, we are out there, and we are defining words, and we are coming up with things. I mean, it's really nothing new, right? We've been doing this the whole time. But you get an opportunity with social media to see it from the source. Right. And we have leverage in a way that wasn't even an option in the 80s. You know, with all these people who are influencers, like you see people out here saying things that are like new catchphrases from the community in more real time. Like, I think I was watching something on TV, and some white person said, say less, and I was like, I'll get that. Yeah, usually takes a little while, like, we usually ran something and we're not saying it anymore. By the time you're saying, you have like,

Aaron Lloyd: 13:45

like, chill, like, chill out. We were done with that 10 years when it started to become popular vernacular, you're right words have such power, and social media has sped everything up. And normally what happens is society has time to adjust to an idea. So ideas introduced, you get pushback, and that slowly through time society comes around to it. One example I can say is most recent would be gay marriage, it took about 20 years but slowly to become accepted in popular culture. Nowadays, things come up social media spreads it. And I did take hold in a year or two. And society is pushing back now because they don't have time to adjust to it so they're frustrated. And I see the negative in it, but it doesn't mean the idea is wrong. Just because you have a hard time with and human beings we all know cannabis. Human beings are horrible with change. You offer change in any situation. Human beings hate it. You go to church. Oh, you change the way to choir does this choir hates it? You go to work you train differently, you know, oh, we got a new policy. Everybody moans and groans human beings just hate change.

Kandice Whitaker: 14:58

I think you're 100% right about That. That is exactly why I go around. And I teach people how to be more resilient, because what is resilience, but being able to understand and adjust to change is that and in the whole framework that I go around, and I teach people, this is how you build your resilience, right? Because without resilience, you're really not going to do well. Yeah, I had a friend tell me years ago, so true, the only thing consistent in life is change. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so here it is, you know, out of my bail yourself out framework, that is why that's the name of this podcast, my a is accept change as part of your life. And probably more importantly, that change is not necessarily negative. Exactly.

Aaron Lloyd: 15:48

Most of the time, it's not extra. So how many times have you come to work, this been a major change, you responded to it negatively. And four months later, once the change has been implemented, you're perfectly fine with it, you could care less about it, that happens to all of us, we have all been guilty of that. Just because you feel negatively about it doesn't mean that it's necessarily bad. And that's a great point that you brought up. Think about

Kandice Whitaker: 16:12

it this way. Okay. So with the work example, I made my career in corporate in change management, right? That's what I do. If you see me, that means there's a change brought me in. That is made, right? She me her change person is here. Here's the problem, right? Those people who when the change is happening, because understand by the time it has gotten to everyone, it's already been decided, we already have a timeline, it's already been paid for. So we'll see either get on board, or you're going to risk being labeled as a person who is resistant to change, right, that will damage your brand at work. There's that. But then more importantly, you will then be seen as a person who's now an adversary, right? Yes to all of the things that we have identified as positive going along with that change, right? So usually, what happens to those people is one of three things, you're ready. Those are the people once the change is implemented, you're on the layoff list. Number two, they just get a new job, they tap themselves out, which is kind of a win win for everybody. Or number three, they retire, which is kind of the same as number two. Yes. So understand that when change happens, especially when it is involved in a corporation and is like a thing beyond the scope of your control. You either gotta get on board to get out like,

Aaron Lloyd: 17:45

Yes, that's it. Or if you kick up a little dust, and it's not enough to put you on a layoff list. It definitely will have management thinking about you differently. So now you may not be on the layoff list, but you're not on the promotion list. apart. You couldn't

Kandice Whitaker: 18:01

get your little 4% Raise. Exactly,

Aaron Lloyd: 18:03

exactly. And if you think that management isn't noticing you being difficult during change, you're highly mistaken. You're highly mistaken.

Kandice Whitaker: 18:12

That part. But to go back to the former president of Home Depot's commentary. I wrote a blog I don't know about six months ago, and I think it's entitled that the silver lining of the great resignation. I think the great resignation caused a paradigm shift from upper management, being able to say, this is what we're going to give you and you better be happy, which is basically a plantation mindset. That's what it is. Let's call it what it is to the worker being able to say, hey, you know what, I don't like this. I don't like that. There's greener grass over there. There's better horizons, I can be treated better. They have better benefits. They have options. And people who are not resilient people who don't like change. They're longing for the old days, almost to me like you're sitting back on your front porch whistling Dixie.

Aaron Lloyd: 19:07

Yeah, we wish it for the old days where we can merge you lazy,

Kandice Whitaker: 19:11

right? What are we doing? Exactly? I wish I was an apple a hanging on a Tree like what the hell is this?

Aaron Lloyd: 19:19

No, absolutely, absolutely. I could not believe how out of touch he sounded. Oh my god. I mean, articles like this is no relation at all to the average worker. And he got a problem with socialism because he doesn't need a social security check. But to 95% of us, we need it. And real quickly, I don't understand. With this wage inequality, billionaires hoarding wealth more and more and more and the disparity getting greater and greater and greater. I would expect billionaires to be students of history. This never ends well throughout history at

Kandice Whitaker: 19:56

heart. But wait a second, Aaron. There is an assumption not Just you in American society that equates having money to being intelligent to be learned. Yes. And as evidenced by this commentary, I would suggest not. And also, perhaps our former president is also a good illustration. Just because a person has money doesn't necessarily mean they have erudition that matches, right? No, I don't.

Aaron Lloyd: 20:25

Absolutely. I totally agree with you. I do think that most billionaires have some level of competency, at least in their area of expertise, you know, so outside of that they may be clueless. But then the other Elon Musk's of the world who are a little bit smarter, although his ego has run amok and interferes with his intelligence.

Kandice Whitaker: 20:46

I mean, is he really that intelligent? I feel like he has no emotional intelligence. He's almost like a

Aaron Lloyd: 20:53

you're right. He doesn't, he doesn't. And you sodick. have no emotional intelligence, and ego. That's run amok. But if you listen to him intellectually talk about things, he has the ability to see things in a tech space that a lot of people can't see, you know, I'm not trying to put him on a pedestal, I'm just using him as an example, I would think that there are some people with money, that understand that gross inequality in wages leads to people to revolt, to stand up to fight back. At some point, they just say, I can't make a living, I can't survive. You have all the money, I'm coming to chop your head off. Now. We don't live in the 1600s, or 1500s, or the 1400s. But you cannot live in a society, a world cannot sustain this level of gross inequality, where 1% has 90% of the wealth, it just it doesn't work. And what are you going to do with that money? Anyway? What do you do with that? You can't take

Kandice Whitaker: 21:50

it with you. I mean, what you're saying screams French Revolution, like, playing in my head? Absolutely. Absolutely. As a student of history, I am totally there with you, you know, kind of going back to the education part. This is why you have people like Rick DeSantis down in Florida, who are fighting against history being taught

Aaron Lloyd: 22:10

and trying to make it something else trying to make it sound like it's something else. It just proved that the term white fragility is absolutely true. I hate to say it, but straight historical facts should not be threatening to anyone. That's facts, right? It shouldn't be threatening to anyone. I think it was Tallahassee coats. I was listening to when he was like, history should be uncomfortable when we study history. It shouldn't make us uncomfortable, but we should learn from it. And the fact that it's uncomfortable doesn't mean you should run from it.

Kandice Whitaker: 22:43

Exactly. There's nothing wrong with the truth. As long as it's the truth.

Aaron Lloyd: 22:48

Yes. How could you think that teaching African American history is a problem? How could you think that the discussion on reparation is a dirty word when we've paid reparations in this country on more than one occasion? So the idea that African Americans would even discuss reparations should not be offensive to you. Now you can make an argument against it and argument for it, you can even let the students work it out. But to not allow them to teach it to make a law that you can't teach this. And DeSantis is even going farther in the state schools. You can't teach this to state colleges

Kandice Whitaker: 23:24

shout out to historically black colleges in the state of Florida. But wait, think about it in the context of Florida, Florida. It wasn't part of the 13 colonies, right? It wasn't part of the original 13 colonies. And Florida up until recently has had a terrible history in regard to its education system. It's hardly on the bottom of the educational levels of the United States. So let's start there. Florida is not known for turning out are scholars in the United States just like basically the armpit of the United States. And I said what I said it's a place where New Yorkers go to retire right?

Aaron Lloyd: 24:05

From New Jersey, people from up north to find that it's cheaper to live there. My best friend's son's about to go to college in the fall. He said two years ago, Rhonda says this is crazy. I'm not going to Florida for college. I'm not going to live in that state as a black man. At 15 years old. He said this. That's how crazy this man is that even teenagers say I can't live there.

Kandice Whitaker: 24:27

Think about it, right? If anything crazy in the United States happens if I read a headline and something outrageous happens before I even look at the full story. I already know it's either Florida, Ohio, or Texas. Not necessarily in that order. But like but the really crazy outrageous things always. Yes, Florida, Texas. Yeah, in Ohio, always. I don't know what's wrong. Yeah. Those three places

Aaron Lloyd: 25:00

And the scary thing about is Texas and Florida in particular, other states follow what they do. So they do outlandish things. And then those outlandish things spread and other vet Republican state legislatures. How do you have education where you take certain things off the table to discuss in a college?

Kandice Whitaker: 25:19

Let's think about this, though, considering looking at it through the lens of Florida, also the place that kind of was a slave state, but it wasn't. But they continued this model of sharecropping, up until well into the 1970s. Yes, yeah, basically had slaves. Yes. That's why

Aaron Lloyd: 25:42

because sharecropping is just legalized slavery, slaves is legal.

Kandice Whitaker: 25:46

Because all they did was change the model to make it barely legal. But these folks are still alive. Yeah, that's probably the issue. We don't want grandma and grandpa to be put out there like that.

Aaron Lloyd: 25:58

Yeah. You know, I think about I'm probably going to leave New York state when Michelle retires. And I think all the time where I'm gonna go. And Michelle has a lot of family in Florida. But we just can't bring ourselves to say Florida on our list. Not in this current environment.

Kandice Whitaker: 26:14

It's crazy. And it's not getting better. It's like worse. Yes. It's like a race to the bottom. Really.

Aaron Lloyd: 26:19

That'd be ashamed if I lived and served with some of the things I would you know, like I'm ashamed of Santos being from New York and in Congress. If I was from Florida, I'd be ashamed and anti state.

Kandice Whitaker: 26:31

You know, I'm not even gonna lie. I did not know. Santos was from New York. When I found that out. I died a little inside like, I just knew he was from Florida. Yes.

Aaron Lloyd: 26:42

Yes to be. Long Island. The worst part about it.

Kandice Whitaker: 26:47

I'm so ashamed. Shoutout to the 516. Yeah.

Aaron Lloyd: 26:50

Kandice, my friends are like, is that your guy? Like, no. Don't put that on me. He's in the district. Next door. He is not in my district. Don't put that on me. Yes.

Kandice Whitaker: 27:01

So Oh, my goodness, I think we could talk about this all day, I'm gonna put a paperclip in this topic. And after the break, I am going to downshift into talking about HBCU or PWI's. That's what we're going to talk about next. And a little bit later, we're going to talk about doing your self assessment and inventorying your personal strengths and how that all relates to your life experience. So tell me, are you enjoying the show? gone ahead and rate us five stars and leave a comment. Now back to the show. Okay, so welcome back, y'all. I wanted to have this really interesting conversation about HBCU versus PWI. And so for those of you who don't understand what those terms are, historically black college or university versus or, or a predominantly white institution, so this conversation is going to be really interesting because Aaron went to the mecca of HBCUs. Howard bison, yes, yes. Yes.

Aaron Lloyd: 28:11

Bisons changed my life. different. I can say, Kandice, I got to Howard in

Kandice Whitaker: 28:14

I went to a PWI went to a regular college, shout out to purchase college. I feel like I should be wearing my purchase college shirt right now. Yes. Why? Because it was close to home. And honestly, I didn't really even consider a historically black college or university. And now that I know more about it. And I've seen people who have graduated from historically black colleges, I almost wish that I had gone to historically black college, because just in general, I feel like my counterparts who have gone to HBCU they have such a connection to their school that I'm just like, I was just just a happenstance way that you went to purchase. I was applying to Syracuse and Pratt, and my mother's boyfriend at the time came and said, What about Howard? Howard whats that? First of all, it's a man's name. Like,

Aaron Lloyd: 29:10

I go to the college office the next day, and the

Kandice Whitaker: 29:10

Howard. rest is history, told my best friend, my best friend went to Howard. And the funny thing about it is he went to Morris Brown, which, you know, closed down Atlanta, they closed down, got their accreditation back, but he wasn't even like go to Morris Brown. He was like go to Howard. And I thank him for that because it changed my life. So the question of HBCU or PWI. For me, my college was so profound to me that I think HBCUs do something for black students, and it gives them a comfort level and ability to grow. But I think that's true at the PWI also, and from what I've seen that PWI's in New York, particularly that I know of the black students congregated together and had their own little network within the PWI. So I think that experience is similar. I think that it just not as much, it's just not as much. Because at an HBCU everywhere you turn is your own community. And then you get professors who are really understand the mission. And at a place like Howard, one of the things that HBCUs do is that if you really graduate at the top of your class, especially at some of the better HBCUs, corporate America comes to HBCU even more so now than before, because they are all improving their academic standards, what it takes to get into Howard now, my friends always kid that like none of us would have gotten into Howard with our grades back then we would not get into how it now they always say that, you know, I think that's Malarkey, but they always say that. But I do think that is an advantage. And I think a lot of people don't know that. But corporate America comes to HBCUs all the time looking for black candidates in particular, but they don't go to all of them. They don't they don't they go to Howard. They go to Spelman. They go to go to Morehouse. Yeah. They go to Hampton. Yes. FAMU? FAMU and Tuskegee. Yes, this probably

Aaron Lloyd: 31:12

did they don't, there's probably a good 10 that they may look at. But when they want to elite, they go to Howard Morehouse and Spelman if you want to be brutally cutthroat, but you know, also the other institutions Hampton stays up there. But you're right, they're not going to some small HBCU in the middle of Texas,

Kandice Whitaker: 31:31

that are in the sciences, though, shout out to Xavier in Louisiana, and also Tuskegee, you know, math and science. But that's really specific niches. And yeah,

Aaron Lloyd: 31:41

I have a friend that graduated, then went to medical school

Kandice Whitaker: 31:44

there in the hiree, the first black medical school,

Aaron Lloyd: 31:48

actually, it's funny you say that, because in my crew, you know, there's 11 of us from Howard. One of them is a doctor. And that's where he went

Kandice Whitaker: 31:56

For years and years, that was the only medical Yes. That is. Like hello? you said it was on white radio? Yes. school for people of color. So definitely that history is important. And the foundation is so important. And the part that's so crazy to me, is even today, I went to school more than 20 years ago, you went to school more than 20 years ago, enrollment in historically black colleges is up. There's a lot of people that don't even realize their importance. No, no, they still don't even come up on the map. Like I was actually horrified in doing research for this conversation. Because the only time I've ever talked about HBCUs versus PWI is like in my living room, you know, people who went to HBCUs they feel very strongly about it. And I've always just been an observer of the conversation because I'm just like, I don't know. Yeah, yeah. was horrifying to me that there was just one little article from a major source from USA Today. Right. And it was just from December, like literally just December. And it was a basic high level of here's what you need to know about But it was a black person that black colleges and universities. We don't notice. Yeah, exactly. is trying to speak back to the other conversation about education like that is something that we should be talking about. said it and I was horrified. I was like every other college is In terms of history. I heard somebody say on a radio interview, because you know, I love radio, right? I love talk radio. I love podcasts. I heard somebody say, Well, why do we even need historically black colleges? And I was like, Are you serious? Because black people weren't allowed to go to regular colleges. right. they were like, Why don't we have white? White? Historically, universities? Because I was like, because you do University? Yeah, they're called Harvard

Aaron Lloyd: 33:50

and Yale. The sad thing about it is only someone who has never experienced the process or understanding the mission on why this university were created in the first place would say that only someone who's never been to historically black college would say that, who doesn't realize all of the important black leaders in America that went to black institutions. Oprah, Thurgood Marshall, you go on foot ever with the elite of the black community for the last 100 years. And they went to historically black schools, because they had to. Exactly, exactly, exactly. And it's funny because I'm trying to be when you say your friends on a character like heavy HBCU and that's my personal feeling. But I'm trying to be objective and not biased just on I went there, and I love it, but just trying to intellectually examine the benefits of both. And the reason I say that is because I have friends now that went to historically black colleges and they leveled up for their parents are doing better than their parents did. And they were able to send their children to private schools and independent Schools in New York City when their kids have gotten a better education than them and they're choosing PWI's. It's a tricky thing where you're like, Well, you know, the HBCU has value. But if your kid can get into MIT, do you not send your kid to MIT? So I think if it's an elite level institution you choose to PWI if its SUNY old Westbury you don't go to SUNY old Westbury. That's not a knock. My ex girlfriend was for SUNY old Westbury I spent a lot of days on that campus. So that's not enough at all.

Kandice Whitaker: 35:28

I knew that was oddly specific. It was some connection there.

Aaron Lloyd: 35:34

You know, when you said that you didn't know about HBCUs. It wasn't talked about in the family. You know, it wasn't like, Hey, this is what you should do. I learned about the importance of Howard when I got on Howard's campus Kandice. I read about it. But I didn't get it till I got there. And I learned about Jack and Jill. I didn't know what Jack and Jill was till I got to Howard.

Kandice Whitaker: 35:57

That's because we are not part of the black bourgeoisie.

Aaron Lloyd: 36:00

Exactly. You have to be in the know that's a whole different conversation. Shout out to our kinds of people. Links is true. But I learned about Jack and Jill in college.

Kandice Whitaker: 36:14

We are standard issue American Negroes Yeah, not Jack and Jill.

Aaron Lloyd: 36:19

Absolutely. You know, I got to Howard, just like on third generation, how it's great. Well, my great, great, great grandfather was in the first graduating class of Howard. He saw all that type of stuff. And I'm like, wow, my family just started going to college. My grandfather was a bricklayer. Exactly, my uncle Leslie went to Hofstra University. So I'm going to college. That was the extent of why I was going to

Kandice Whitaker: 36:43

school. Shout out to Uncle Leslie rest in peace. Yeah, so I get this.

Aaron Lloyd: 36:48

Exactly. I don't think that there was a lot of information. I think that continues today, Kandice where a lot of students, they're not exposed to black colleges, until they get to a college counselor. But it's not like no one talks about it. Don't take them to a homecoming game when I'm in ninth grade. So they can see that and say, hey, wow, I like this type of thing. And just to show you real quick to inequities. I have a good friend of mine whose son goes to a one of the elite independent schools in New York City. And of course, they go on college trips, and of course, their school that believes in diversity, equity and inclusion and ascend their mission statement. But when it came to go to colleges, they didn't have any black college trips. HBCU trip scheduled, it took the parents they have any black kids? Yes, they do. And it took the black parents association to go and make it happen.

Kandice Whitaker: 37:38

That's always what happens, Aaron, I mean, and I'm not making excuses for them. I'm just saying that's why it's so important for us people of color to be part of these conversations. Yes. Right. Because I don't think they're excluding us intentionally.

Aaron Lloyd: 37:56

But don't you think a college counselor, that's all you do at the school is trying to expose kids to college that HBCUs an important lane that you should, you know, maybe not the biggest lane, but hey, I need to serve as my students of color. This institution is trying to increase its diversity. We have more black students, more people of color in this institution than ever before. The parents. I just feel like I understand the rest of the administration not understanding but the counselor, that's your job. Maybe we really gonna talk

Kandice Whitaker: 38:26

about the real deal. Aaron, you are. Come on. We're going to take off our colored glasses together. We are we're going to take them off. And we're going to put them right here on this counter. And just be like, Aaron, what

Aaron Lloyd: 38:38

did you expect? Yeah,

Kandice Whitaker: 38:39

they did not see Howard in the same light that they see Harvard. Absolutely. Or Yale? Speak on it or MIT? You're speaking for us or UCLA? They just don't?

Aaron Lloyd: 38:53

Yeah, it's not. Yes, you're right. And you know what? It doesn't help that institution when they send a student to Howard, but they're ranking as an independent school, right?

Kandice Whitaker: 39:03

Because most people are like, Okay, what's Howard say? The Harvard Schlag.

Aaron Lloyd: 39:08

They want to send 19 students to Harvard, another 12 to Yale nine kids went to Berkeley, they want all that

Kandice Whitaker: 39:13

at the end of the day, Aaron, we are Americans and Americans are consumers. And we're name whores. Yes, we are. And if we don't recognize the name, right, because you're really talking about the difference between a Chanel? Yes, and a Fubu. Yeah, you know what Fubu is? Let me give you an example of story. I will never forget this. As long as I live. This is when I realized how different my life experience was or is from my peers. I was in fourth grade. I was 10 years old. First of all, I came to school in a jumper. We call them jumpers. Everybody else calls them overalls. One side unclip like criss cross. Yes, because I went to school and in the 90's, right? Yes. So I'm doing my criss cross thing with my boots on that was a fly look? Yeah. I remember two things all day. My teacher was like, could you clip up the other side? And I was like, No. And why did they care? It's not like it was falling off. The one side kept it up. Because I knew my teacher would say something. So I made sure I left the other clip at home. So there was that. I didn't have a clip. But then also, when all the other kids in the class we're talking about who they listened to, it was like, new kids on the block. And I was like, shabba rinks, criss cross. Who are these people? That was the first time that they were like, no, they're not cool. It's new kids on the block. To this day I don't listen to new kids on the block.

Aaron Lloyd: 40:59

Just for that, right? Like,

Kandice Whitaker: 41:01

not just for that, like my teacher tried to make it seem like I was all out of the box. And I was like, Nah, y'all are corny. Yeah. That was the first time in my life that I realized that a very different life experience from my peers.

Aaron Lloyd: 41:16

Yes, yes. And that's always a difficulty when you send your child to a private school or charter Independent School,

Kandice Whitaker: 41:25

regular public school, Aaron. Wow. You know, kind of to relate this to the HBCU versus PWI conversation. I think that choice is deeply personal. It is it is, you know, I think it really depends on what's important to that child like, yes, my oldest daughter, she had the grades and the background to be able to do a Yale or Harvard, and I was like, I just don't think that's good for you. Yeah. You know, as a person who's I worked at Yale for a long time. I know what's there for real Yes, I said, this is not for my child, I encouraged her let's go to a historically black college and we visited quite a few. Her challenge was she didn't really want to go down south, right. And so, you know, being raised in the tri state area in New York down south is really anything below Maryland. It is.

Aaron Lloyd: 42:22

You start to feel a little southern this in DC,

Kandice Whitaker: 42:24

a whole different vibe, the whole even in Baltimore a

Aaron Lloyd: 42:28

little bit. But DC really what starts,

Kandice Whitaker: 42:34

our choices? Were the historically black colleges that I didn't even know about that were in Pennsylvania, and that is shame. Cheney, the oldest historically black college is in Pennsylvania. Yeah. And we went there. And it was like, US and Jesus, we are the students. It's a beautiful campus. Yeah, it would have gotten her own room. They didn't have her major. And then it was that one. And then we went to Lincoln. And then she went online and read the reviews about Lincoln, and was like, No,

Aaron Lloyd: 43:05

Lincoln's been struggling for a minute. And they have such a good HBCU name, recognition, respect, but the institution has not been meeting the standards that they need to for a while. And it was like that when I was in school, you know, that's 30 years. This is not a new situation. You really can't find that quality HBCU in the northeast, you're right. You can't Howard and Morgan State are the first two that you really like, well, I can consider

Kandice Whitaker: 43:31

there are others in Maryland, right, like so there's coppin Bowie State. Yes. But you know, when you're from New York, what did they always tell you? If you want to go to historically black college, you're gonna go to SUNY Albany? That's like a black school. Yeah.

Aaron Lloyd: 43:47

Like the SUNY Albany is, and the Old WestBury, you have the students that stay on campus are typically black. And then you have the white commuter students. So the campus becomes the black students campus. It's a vibe. But the only problem is, I don't know about Albany, but like, old westbury let's bring everybody goes home on the weekend, you know, which I

Kandice Whitaker: 44:06

think is crazy. Purchase was definitely like that everybody left on the weekend. But our experience was different from many other SUNY colleges, just because of our proximity to New York City. Right. So like, I would have people ask me, like all the time, do you guys have step shows? Did you have sororities or fraternities and I'm like, we really had like, no activities on campus. People would bounce they went to school left. I mean, they came back to sleep. A lot of people lived on campus, but we were 30 minutes and $5 on the metro north from New York City. Yes. Anybody staying around the school to figure out what's going to be served in the cafeteria like I would have a better chance of going down to the village and seeing my classmates down there for real Absolutely. Given the choice when you're hanging out on a campus like that seems to

Aaron Lloyd: 44:53

be I guess, a unique to state in New York. A lot of the state schools people leave on the weekend. I don't know why but

Kandice Whitaker: 44:59

from all over the country, you're competing with New York City, there is

Aaron Lloyd: 45:03

competition. It's not the PWI HBCU thing is personal. I think that I would say, as a default, if you are in a good mental space, you can't go wrong in a HBCU. But if you're an elite student with the ability to go to a superior PWI, you know, I can't knock that I'd be a fool and just the hallmark for black colleges, if I said that, but I will say in the last 10 years, it's something I just can't understand. I've repeatedly heard of students that have gone to Howard University and didn't like it and left their freshman year, not one, not two, not three. But I've heard the story more than a few times. I think that partly though, I think that a lot of people aren't ready for college. And I think that freshman year, when you leave home, and your hours away from home, not everybody can handle it. And a lot of people find themselves unhappy, which is weird, because there's so much to do that, Howard. It's the type of institution that whatever you're into, you'll find somebody that does it. So you want to party you'll find party as you studious, you'll find students, you're into drugs, you find people that do drugs, you're people that got hobbies.

Kandice Whitaker: 46:08

You said that way too casually. If you like drugs,

Aaron Lloyd: 46:12

no it because there's so many people there and there's so many pockets, you can find the type of people that you want to associate with. I don't

Kandice Whitaker: 46:20

think that has anything to do with Howard as an institution, per se. No, that's an interesting point that you brought up, though, because I also have heard recently of a lot of people getting into Howard, which for years, many people will call the black Harvard, right, and then leaving, but I've heard different things. Like I have a friend who went to Howard and she had to go because she had too much fun at Howard. Yeah, one part of it, right? Yes. Yeah. You said you could party. If you want a party? Well, my child, I would know, yeah, Howard is not the place because she would be on that party tip. And yeah, but I also need you to go and actually get a diploma. That is why school is so expensive. Now you got to do it in four years. But then the second part is how it is also very expensive. I've also heard of running out of money. That's difference between the financial aid that you get in the first year. And that's just not how it is any school. And the second year can be tremendous. If you're one of those people that like my family that maybe made$10 too much to get the super duper financial aid package. If you ain't got it, you ain't got it. You can't get blood from a turnip. So there's that I think it is hard to expect children, especially with how parents are different now from when we were growing up parents now. They do well, way lot more than was ever done for us growing up. I'm not saying that's wrong, right? I'm just saying these kids are different. Yeah, it just, they're emotionally more intelligent. They're really good at processing their feelings. And they're great at communication and a lot of ways. And I'm, of course, I'm speaking in generalities, but they've never been away and not had people really take care of things for them. I also think at 18, it's hard to send a child away and expect them to really have it all together. That's a lot. Yeah. Which is why normalize would like figuring it out a little first,

Aaron Lloyd: 48:14

I think you're right. And I think it depends on the student back 30 years ago, if you took five years to graduate that was accepted. Now you can't do that you better be out in four years, because it's costing you $35,000 a year to go to school or more, it could cost you up to 50. So you better finish in four years. This is extremely expensive. So I do think that a lot of people go to college, regardless of what institution it is and reinvent themselves. They grow. That's where they change. If you had a kid that was getting teased all year, and beat up in high school, when you get to college the first day, nobody knows you, you can reset your life. And a lot of people do well, but a lot of people don't do well without that emotional support or their family and their friends. And you have to start from scratch. good friendships. You don't have to make one friend you got to make nine to ten is all of your friends.

Kandice Whitaker: 49:04

Look, maybe there's something to be said for the boomers who were not emotionally supportive. Yeah, so we weren't accustomed to that. Yeah, yeah. Emotional support. What's that?

Aaron Lloyd: 49:15

What's that? You don't need that. Suck it up? Suck it up.

Kandice Whitaker: 49:20

Shout out to the boomers who raised us. Yes.

Aaron Lloyd: 49:23

I think there was one of the women on Housewives of Atlanta, Real Housewives of Atlanta, one of her students. One of their kids went to Howard. It only lasted like a year. I'm not sure which one but like that, you know, they didn't do well at the school. That's a common thing. If you

Kandice Whitaker: 49:37

are Real Housewives of anything money the accommodations at a college, especially most historically black colleges that alone.

Aaron Lloyd: 49:46

Yeah. And how it has a lot of new dorms and they've done some renovations, but it ain't what you've been. It's a step down from where you go. My point that a lot of schools don't allow you to stay off campus as a freshman and rightfully so

Kandice Whitaker: 49:59

I think That's more historically black colleges because my daughter actually ended up going to temple. Yes. And lived off campus as a freshman. Yes. Yeah. And at PWI. They don't care.

Aaron Lloyd: 50:08

No, there's a lot of hand holding. And there's always been a lot of rules that feel real. Oh, that felt like well, this school has probably been doing this forever.

Kandice Whitaker: 50:17

You know, I mean, like Hamptons policy for no dreadlocks for their business students a couple of years ago. I thought that was horrendous.

Aaron Lloyd: 50:24

Yeah, it wasn't just Hampton my partner who's on my podcast. His nephew had dreadlocks and he went to a&t I believe it was, I believe it was North Carolina a&t And he wants to be a sports agent. So he's in the School of Business. And they told him he had to cut his dreads, or he couldn't be in the sports management program as a freshman. A lot of schools do that. When I was in school at Howard, on Fridays, it was suits on Fridays in the School of Business, you know, like I was expected of you with a lot of not allowing women or men in the dorm after 11pm As a freshman.

Kandice Whitaker: 50:57

At purchase College, we had co Ed dorms at first. We had a dorm period. Wow, no, see, yeah, that's what it was when I was in school. And I remember talking to a friend who went to a historically black college and he was like, Yo, all girls would have been pregnant if that's yes,

Aaron Lloyd: 51:14

no, absolutely. Kandice, I stayed in a dorm called Meridian Hill. The nickname was herpes Hill. I don't know anybody had herpes. The point was a lot was going on. It was a co Ed upperclassmen dorm, but even the head of our dorms. Most of them were referenced. They say everybody

Kandice Whitaker: 51:30

in here saved we don't care what you think. Yes.

Aaron Lloyd: 51:34

So you had that biblical thing. I said, 11.

Kandice Whitaker: 51:40

We go and pray.

Aaron Lloyd: 51:42

You can see the history of the institution like where certain things had probably been going on since 1867. When I was

Kandice Whitaker: 51:50

the school started on prayer, right? I'm making a joke. I came. Yeah, they're like, look, we got a good thing going with JC we don't need y'all to hear acting out. We did have co Ed dorms, but purchase college. I didn't know this until I attended is like literally one of the largest gay schools predominantly gay schools in the country. Oh, wow. So it did it really matter? Does it matter? A lot of couples living together. So no

Aaron Lloyd: 52:19

matter what you would have done, it would have been couples around keeping separate or together wouldn't it matter? Yeah.

Kandice Whitaker: 52:25

I was a double minority. Right. I'm a woman. They're black and straight.

Aaron Lloyd: 52:31

Yes. Wow.

Kandice Whitaker: 52:36

Yeah, we did need a gay student association. That was everybody.

Aaron Lloyd: 52:39

Oh, my goodness. Oh, wow. I tell you, man, you cannot commingle and you had to be out of that dorm by 11 o'clock for the freshman

Kandice Whitaker: 52:47

as if it was jumping out of windows and

Aaron Lloyd: 52:49

Kandice there were people spending the night carrying on sneaking in the dorm didn't sign in all of that foolishness. You can get the girl pass the glass and get them to the elevator or the stairs. All of that stuff was going on. Don't let your RA see you.

Kandice Whitaker: 53:02

Oh, say who want to be the girl caught? Talk about slut shame yet? Yes. This our generation was heavy on the slut shame. Yeah, I don't care about your feelings.

Aaron Lloyd: 53:11

Especially me. I was coming up with HIV was still a problem. So I was a generation where it wasn't this Oh, just free sex. It was hey, don't get sick. It was definitely a different vibe than slut shaming was real. No sexual empowerment. Yes, she would do one person kicking that nobody was following her behind it.

Kandice Whitaker: 53:31

Because that was still some white people stuff and wasn't until TLC came maybe a full decade later.

Aaron Lloyd: 53:36

Yeah. Definitely much tighter reins on freshmen at historically black schools.

Kandice Whitaker: 53:42

I'm sad to say we have to end this conversation right here. The conversation between Aaron and I it got good to us, y'all. So we actually recorded for more than two hours. The good news is you got two episodes of becoming you for the price of one. So in the next episode, we're going to continue the conversation about HBCUs versus PW eyes and then we're going to dive deep into self assessment and evaluation while you're out and about make sure you check out Aaron's podcast my mic sounds nice on all podcast outlets. That's all for now we out. Wasn't that a great interview? Hold up before you grab your hat and head out. Make your way to facebook.com and join the Kandice with the K Whitaker's Facebook group. That's where you can find our free Happy Hour community, luxuriating enchanting, thank you for listening. And if you enjoyed the show, please leave a review. That's how we keep the lights on. If you're on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, feel free to shoot me a message and say Hey, girl, hey, I'm Kandice with the K Whitaker and I would love to hear from you. And with that, I love you. And I mean, you know why? Because there are people in the world who hate for no reason I choose to love for no reason. I believe that's the great Martin Luther King Jr. said Pete is too great at burden to bear and I choose to love peace y'all be great!