Secure the Bag: Know When to Fold'em

This week on the Bail Yourself Out podcast, Host Kandice with a "K"  Whitaker highlights America's morphing work culture in a post-pandemic corporate world. Joined by this week's co-host Nikki Adams, these two trailblazers break down the true power competent employees have over employers. So pull up a "happy hour" beverage and soak in the work wisdom of two "corporate raiders"  who  make the workplace work for them first - and the corporate employer second.


Ineffective or afraid of negotiating with prospective employers? Do you lack the self confidence or proper communication tools to demand a salary commensurate with your experience? Well, fear no further; on this episode of the Bail Yourself Out podcast, creator and host Kandice Whitaker has the perfect co-host, Nikki Adams (armed with twenty-plus years in corporate spaces), to answer these and many other corporate employee/employer questions the post covid worker needs to know.

This week, Kandice has found the perfect resource in Nikki to offer advice and answer the hard questions employees want to know but rarely ask. From split work schedules to nailing the proper tactic in negotiating compensation, Kandice and Nikki chop it up, make it plain, digestible, and, most notably for you, the listener, repeatable in your corporate life. While many take the first salary offer, learn why that is almost always a mistake. Finally, the hosts explain why the current shifting corporate employment landscape is the perfect environment to request other incentives in conjunction with your salary. So join the Bail Yourself Out pod this week for the most educational "happy hour" in the podcasting universe.                                     


Reference Article
Episode 4 - Secure the Bag:  Know When to Fold'em Article

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Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

Welcome to the bail yourself out Happy Hour Podcast where each week we'll help you navigate the corporate jungle. Here's your host Kandice Whitaker

Kandice Whitaker: 0:09

Nope its happy hour. I'm your coworker Kandice with the K pull up a chair and your favorite drink for the bail yourself out Happy Hour is about to start now. You know, the quickest way to get a raise and promotion is to change jobs. I'm telling you, that's it. Our guest today, Nikki Adams. She has worked in corporate America for the last 20 years. And this woman is the queen of reinventing herself. You want to talk about somebody who delivered chips for Frito Lay worked on a team that built the new Yankee Stadium, luxury condos, not for profit, all types of industry experience. My girl goes for that bag. And you know what, right after the break, you'll get to meet her. Keep away. You got it. When we come back, we're talking to Nikki Adams, we'll be back.

Pierce Taylor: 1:05

Welcome to the bail yourself out. Happy Hour podcast. The bail acronym is used to outline the steps to implementing resilience in your life B believe you can win A accept change as part of the journey. I inventory strengths and L learn from what's happened. Together, we'll unpack the bail framework in action. Now back to the show.

Kandice Whitaker: 1:21

So today we're going to talk about the B in our bail framework, which stands for believe I invited my guests, Nikki Adams today because out of all the people I know this girl, she can reinvent herself y'all. Like as long as I've known her. What's the saying she's a fuck around and find out type person, you know, she'll be on the job. And I'm like nah they getting on my nerves. And then she's gone. But I also learned from my friend here, that is the quickest way to get what a raise and promotion. So today we're going to talk to Nikki, about how she got that gumption to be able to transition and transform herself, not only throughout real estate, but you know, throughout the years personal growth. But before we jump into those questions, there was an article by McKinsey, which is, you know, one of the top four consulting companies, and they wrote this really interesting article about the great resignation, which is supposedly the time period we just got out of after COVID, where people were just bouncing, they were leaving their jobs. And the title of the article is the great resignation or the great attrition. So first of all, because I'm a nerd, the first thing I did was look at Merriam Webster for what attrition means because I never want to use a definition that I'm guessing on right, I always want to look it up. So I was absolutely floored. I'm going to try my best not to go down too many rabbit holes with this. But attrition has two meanings. And the first meaning of attrition is sorrow for one sense that arises from a motive other than a love of God. But the second meaning is friction. So when they say the great attrition, I'm wondering which definition are you referring to? Because it really could be both we have a double entendre I know I'm a nerd, I just had to nerd out just for one second, but I'm back.

Nikki Adams: 3:17

I actually liked that definition of attrition. Myself, but who would have known Merriam Webster, you know,

Kandice Whitaker: 3:24

I'm a nerd. It definitely does mean the same, especially today. I'm saying I'm like, Are we repenting for our sins and the sin being what? Employers treating people like crap, and they just are getting that.

Nikki Adams: 3:37

And Americans working too hard, non stop all the time relentlessly. And especially in our culture of being in big cities, you work even harder. So, yeah, our culture is definitely committing sin, needing a reprieve and looking to gradually strengthen ourselves and kind of be more independent, I think, defend ourselves and stand for what's important. And I hope that COVID has taught us something about what's important. bring up a good point standing up for ourselves.

Kandice Whitaker: 4:12

Do you think people are doing that more individually? Do you think that's why we're experiencing the great resignation or the great attrition?

Nikki Adams: 4:19

Yeah, I think that right now, we're going through a resurgence of where people are really reevaluating what's important, and we realize that life is more fragile and precious than I think we originally prior to this pandemic ever thought about and I don't think it crossed into our work. There were no boundaries before our employer was allowed to reach out to us at all times. sick days needed to come with a doctor's note, we needed to basically prove dead in order to call out more than dead, dead or someone died. Either we had to die or someone else should have died. ate in order for us to take more than 48 hours to be well, and, you know, we saw a lot of instances where people went to work sick, or they weren't 100%. And I think since that it's taken that point for people to kind of reevaluate their lives, their circumstances, and now become a little bit more demanding with what they want out of life, and then ultimately what they want out of their job because job becomes your life. I mean, is that demanding, though, it shouldn't be. But in our culture mandate, it is because, for example, I used to work for a not for profit organization, we worked in homeless housing in New York City handled all the five boroughs. I remember going to the CEO and asking if there could be like, we all have laptops can work from home, and he was anti remote working. And he was very much about you can't get your job done, unless you're physically here in the office. And I really didn't agree with that I felt that people could be more productive at home. A lot of going to work is socialization, it's interaction, it's meetings that have just endless conversation. And not that those are bad things, those help bring culture but they're not necessarily productive things. And so I think that people have had to shift because we've had to go remote, whether employers liked it or not for a period of time. And then ultimately, the results have not necessarily been as bad as one would have assumed. And even now looking at work cultures, how US differs from even Europe, Europe's now evaluating a four day workweek. And yet they're a culture that already has six weeks vacation, and most countries closed for the month of August. And yet we've never had a culture that way. Do we feel that we're more productive or more burned out? So I think we're getting to a point where we're gonna start kind of demanding what we think is going to help us long term even live to see retirement, hopefully,

Kandice Whitaker: 6:57

man, you bring up a lot of really great points. But the thing of it is, there's so much to unpack there. I'm like, almost uncertain where to start. During COVID, we had so many people, and of course, many of the leaders are boomers. So I hate to call out boomers alone. But boomers don't like change. They really don't people in general don't like change, but especially boomers. And I experienced that along my work journey as well, not being able to work remotely. And literally everything I did didn't involve other people actually being at work was problematic. Because I am the distracted person, if you come by and talk to me, I'm going to talk to you for two hours, and then I'm not going to do work. So I mean, I'm here, which is

Nikki Adams: 7:41

funny, because my perspective is I'm actually opposite. I feel distracted. If someone does try to have like, like conversation. So I like try to nip that in the bud. And then I think that that could come off as like not friendly or not a team player, but it's just that I'm just very results oriented. I just want to get this done and leave. Whereas I've seen in office spaces, people are having long conversations, and they're going to lunch, and I don't really see productivity on that end. But it's easy to get distracted when you're with a group.

Kandice Whitaker: 8:10

Absolutely. And let's be clear, it's not with everybody. But you know, we're having a distracted Friday, like it totally happens. I mean, I wrote a blog a couple of months ago about that, basically, I believe the idea that people are more productive in an in person work environment is completely fictional. Like, have you been in an office, especially on a Friday in the summer? Like, are you kidding me? Like that is so out of touch. That is such an added touch perspective. And so we were kind of forced to learn right through experience with COVID, that remote work isn't horrible. We learned and like it or not, people were productive. And thank God, the economy didn't fall apart, you happen to work in one of the industries that's considered essential. So real estate didn't really close during the pandemic. So I'm sure you had a different experience. But in addition to that, not only is Europe considering a four day work week, our new governor in Maryland, he is considering a four day work week. And that's in legislation right now. So I'm curious to see how that happens. And if it's picked up in the rest of the country,

Nikki Adams: 9:15

I hope so hear ye.

Kandice Whitaker: 9:18

From my mouth to God's ears, right. So one of the points that you made earlier actually spoke to a point in the article where they said that people want autonomy and what is that but a nice way of saying people don't want to be micromanaged. They want to be self governing. That's what autonomy means. Like really, you need article.

Nikki Adams: 9:43

Well, I will say that I think some people do need direction. I don't know about micromanagement, but they do need checkpoints to keep them on point on priority on tasks. Not everybody, but I think some people just depending on again, How distracted do you get? How do you prioritize? How do you, you know, lay out what's going to be first done for a second and third. So I don't think that everyone necessarily should work independently. But I think they should be given the opportunity to Well,

Kandice Whitaker: 10:15

let me qualify my previous distracted statement, I definitely know that I had the propensity to get distracted, especially if somebody is talking about something I'm really interested in. But I'm also a driver. So I'm gonna get my work done. You know what I mean? But I get that some people are not like that. But you're right, people should be absolutely given the opportunity to show you who they are. And then you got to handle them accordingly. But we don't all need to be micromanaged. So why do you think companies are surprised by the great resignation great attrition,

Nikki Adams: 10:47

because like you said, people don't like change. And this is a complete change of perspective. Before we had situations. I mean, I've been literally on hundreds of interviews in my career. And we had more employers telling the employee what the job requirement is what they will tolerate, what the culture is, and what you need to adapt to, to be in our company. And it wasn't really about, we're so excited about what makes you tick, however, that works for you Come on in. And we'll be accommodating to that. And I think unless you have a family specifically, then there are expectations involved, you know, a single person in the workplace is viewed differently than a mother with children versus a male executive in the workplace, right. And so there are general assumptions that go on and passes per se, or permissions and forgiveness is, but I also think that now we're kind of understanding that family, traditional families have changed. So we can't say that, you know, a woman with children may be single, or maybe she's holding down the household, not necessarily anymore. But I think we're now coming to a place where, you know, now we see on job postings, hybrid opportunity work from home, you know, employers are putting it out there, flexible pay great culture. And I think you're seeing more now language that is a little more forgiving, a little more open in terms of hybrid, maybe you work some days in the office, and you choose those days and some other days. And because we're getting to a point where there's so many companies that are having to respond to the work culture of people saying, I'm not going to do that, I'm not going to work full time anymore, I'm going to work part time or I'm not going to work 40 hours a week, or six days a week, I'm working this because this is what works for me Take it or leave it. And we especially now have a younger generation that's coming in, that's supposed to be replacing these boomers as opposed to retire. And the younger generation is saying, Well, I've been doing hybrid school, hybrid remote learning and life for all these years. And this is what works for me. And so I think that because we have so many people who don't want to work, don't want to be on the front lines who don't want to be essential workers anymore, because of the hazards and be pay, then you're gonna have to be flexible, because then you're gonna have no workforce.

Kandice Whitaker: 13:15

Well, you're 100% right about that. But I think we're seeing the paradigm shift because of many different factors, right? Not only did COVID kill almost a million people, but statistically there are way more boomers than there are that next generation, which is Gen X. And depending on the chart you look at, I'm Gen X or millennial, or more Gen X and Millennial. I'm not a millennial. So I digress. That's correct. We were born 20 years after Roe versus Wade, the children that people actually wanted. So there's less of us

Nikki Adams: 13:51

didn't think about it that way. But yeah.

Kandice Whitaker: 13:55

Our generation is small, and then the generation behind us, they're bigger, but they're the kids who grew up on quality time and hugs and shit. We didn't grow up like that. So we got our ass beat and had to come in the house with lights. We're like, we're somewhere in between the boomers and the millennials that are like no, I need oat milk in the cafeteria. Like it's somewhere in between. Right so there's a paradigm shift in that where that middle generation the Gen Xers were I think depending on the person we could go either way we could go more traditional or more Starbucks oatmilk there's that but then there's also more jobs available because all these people died there's that and since there's all these jobs and now people are considering how they've been treated in light of everything that's going on they're like you know where get your corporate one. Why not? I'm just saying because you are a proven loyal to me.

Nikki Adams: 14:53

I've had that model for very long. Probably way before the you know this attrition or since they put a word on it, but I think for me personally, because I am female and because I generally worked, and not only in real estate administration or sales, but I've been on the construction demolition aspect and been a contractor been on the ground on the front lines with a heavy you know, male dominated sector, I've had to diversify myself and my experience, so I wasn't pigeon holed. So I wasn't, you know, a salesperson, or leasing agent doing luxury condos from an office, I would have no other experience, I would be pigeon holed. And I would kind of be stereotyped into a position that's generally or used to be very female centric, a sales, you know, residential or commercial position. But I've been on the front lines on in the fields out on the construction sites, because I wanted to learn about a lot of different things. I've wanted to be able to be dropped in any scenario. So prior to COVID, I remember I always had employers who looked at my resume and said, Either you're overqualified. So we don't want to touch that, or changed opportunities too many times, and you've had so many contract jobs, we're afraid you wouldn't stay. And while you may have the skill set, we're just afraid that you don't have enough longevity in any one place, even though you have a lot of experience. Whereas now we're in a point now where people would see my resume and not be as afraid of it. They'd like, Oh, she has a lot of different experience. She's worked in a lot of different places. She's done contract jobs. Interesting, then I think the question is now pose. Why do you want to come full time? Or why do you want to come on board to x company, as opposed to the employer making the decision of we don't need to have a person like that. Now it's more curiosity. And it starts a conversation, as opposed to being something that worked against me. So I'm happy for this transition. And it's been a long time overdue.

Kandice Whitaker: 17:01

I also think it's because we have a lot of boomers that are now retired. And many of the hiring managers are Gen Xers like us, so they get it. They're the older ones, though, but they're not boomers, they're different. So I'm gonna put a paper clip in this really interesting conversation, we're going to take a break right here. When we come back, we're going to continue the conversation with Nicky Adams about her diversified experience. As a female in a male dominated industry, we'll be back. In our virtual Happy Hour community, the party never stops. Follow Candace with the que Whitaker on social media, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, and Tiktok. Now back to the show. Welcome back, Happy Hour family. So we're talking to Nikki Adams today. And we just talked about an article related to the great resignation, or the great attrition depending on what you want to call it. But I want to transition now into talking about believing in yourself. And the reason Believing in yourself is so important, it is quintessential to resilience, or being able to adapt to change. But also believing in yourself will allow you to do the things in your life that you want to do be able to lead that very fulfilling life that you define on your own terms. So the reason I invited Nikki here today was to have that conversation, because I think she's probably one of the most resilient people that I know, in terms of transitioning to different careers in a space where women are not generally invited, and being able to really confidently speak to what you bring to the table at all times. Even if it's in a brand new field. Like I think you have a mastery at that. So I'm gonna jump right into it and ask you, Nikki, when you're looking for a new position, I know you've done a lot of contracts, and you've done a lot of full time things. What do you look for?

Nikki Adams: 19:03

Well, I guess what I looked for before versus what I look for now has changed a little bit. But I think overall, what I try to look for is an industry that first of all, I believe in, or I have some sort of affinity to I've worked with homeless housing, I worked in hospitality Opening a hotel in the Caribbean. I've worked on the the new Yankee stadium project that we currently knows Yankee Stadium today. And for me, it's about like, what is going to change the landscape, the landscape of a community, the landscape of an actual town, the skyline, the neighboring local area. I've worked in a lot of areas that were not developed that weren't the hotspot yet that we're kind of coming to be. So I always like to feel like even if I've had One year or two years or short term in a project, what is the lasting effect that it's going to bring to the community that I'm serving?

Kandice Whitaker: 20:09

You feel like that's your way of giving back? Yeah,

Nikki Adams: 20:12

I love giving back. You know, if it was up to me, I would probably work in some sort of philanthropic ministry. I think, unfortunately, you know, just like frontline, essential workers, law enforcement, teachers, they don't get paid enough. So one day, one day, but I couldn't, I couldn't work in where I want it to be. But yes, it's kind of a way for me giving back and feeling like, I am not going in it so much for my own self interest, my own wealth, opportunity, etc. I think I've also kind of looked for relationships in the sense that every job that I've had, if I called a party of my closest friends, each table would represent a different job that I've had and the relationships I've kept. And I've been so lucky to meet great people along this journey. So I think it's a lot about the team, you know, do I want to work with these people? Are they likable? Are they relatable? And those are generally or can I learn something from them? So I like to look for relationships like that when I'm looking for a job. And then for me, I think I would also say is, what can I learn from this, because everything I've done has been completely different from the next. So people always saying, Oh, you keep reinventing yourself. It's more like it's just curiosity. I'm interested in learning about different things, again, not wanting to be pigeon holed, or stereotyped. So any opportunity I've been given, like, Sure, I'll take on that, if that's interesting to me, I want to do that. So I could have a breadth of experience, not only in my work, but in my life. And so the reflections of my job have all impacted the current life that I have now. And the experiences I've had that have created lifelong memories, for sure. I love

Kandice Whitaker: 21:57

what you just said, we have this season, a conversation with a former coworker of mine related to relationships at work. And certainly, that's a whole other podcast. So we're not going to dive too deep down that rabbit hole. But I think they're important. And it definitely makes your experience with the employer more valuable. So what are the things you look for in people when you are considering a position to say, Yes, this is a team I want to work for? Or do you have red flags that you say okay, definitely not this absolutely.

Nikki Adams: 22:33

Red flags? For sure you don't, here's what I'll say, in my career, I've struggled because I am a woman with presence. And therefore I can either be seen as intimidating or assertive or sassy or confident it could go either way. And as we know, women in business are generally going to get those labels if they are the same

Kandice Whitaker: 22:59

way. Like am I intimidating or, are you intimidated? Correct. And

Nikki Adams: 23:03

women who are confident in the workforce, you know, can be confident or cocky, whereas we don't get as many pronouns from men. So I think that for me, I've always tried to work in an atmosphere because I've generally been working in a male dominated industry or male playing field. And sometimes I'm the only woman on the team, it needs to be a respectful situation, I will never work in an environment where I am uncomfortable, where I feel that someone has crossed boundaries, I will always make sure that people understand there's no gray boundaries with me, it's black, and it's white. And you're either professional, respectful, and you are treating me like everybody else, or we're going to have a dialogue or we're not going to work together. And the same is true for women. But I can tell you that in my career, I found women to be harder on women than men. Men have generally taken me under their wing they've you know, trained me, the silliest question can be asked and I haven't been mocked or scoffed and I have had different reactions personally with women in the workforce. But I always look for genuineness, I look for someone who is a person outside of work. So you know, anybody who tells me that they're losing sleep over this job, or they're stressed about this project. It's one thing to have, you know, short term anxieties because you're trying to get a goal done. But it's another thing to make that your livelihood. So anybody to me who takes life too seriously. You know, I'm not personally a doctor, I can't cure cancer. I can't save the world from a pandemic. I can only make a small impact each day. So anyone who takes life too seriously and doesn't realize what else is out there that there's more to it than whatever I'm doing nine to five, then I have to kind of reserve myself to bow out of that. I've definitely had employers who've insulted me on interviews, you know, ask silly questions been demeaning, I think there are cues in language interaction body language that you can sometimes sense. But it's not always foolproof because I always have a knack for fine and crazy as well. So

Kandice Whitaker: 25:15

language is important. Language is 100% of core and and making sure that those leaders have a life outside of the office 100% important as well. Like I remember working at an organization where my leader was taking calls on the beach in Puerto Rico, and I was like, don't ever expect to call me on vacation. I'm dead to you. That's a hard No, but I was already too too deep end. But I was like, This is not a badge of honor. This is terrible, right? She's, she's like, Oh, hurry up and ask your question in the meeting. So I can go get in the beach. Like what?

Nikki Adams: 25:52

Yeah, we can't I mean, you can't take life too seriously. My perspective has always been if you take any job too seriously, if you pass away tomorrow, your job is going to be posted on the Internet like everybody else's,

Kandice Whitaker: 26:04

maybe you gone get that edible arrangement for real, hopefully, because

Nikki Adams: 26:09

I've worked for wealthy companies that don't give you a basket of anything, hey, it's a it's really about, you know, at the end of the day, if none of us are here tomorrow, then the world still goes on. And on. And on, there's a vacancy, and there's somebody else who's gonna fill it. And hopefully we get a basket. And maybe we won't, and we're not here to even be have a say. So I've never been a person to be that committed to say that this job is my everything. It may also be that I have different responsibilities and some people and you know, today, I was actually reading an article about you know how some people stay in jobs if they're unhappy, miserable, dead end being abused, being mistreated, because they feel that they have to, like, you know, take it on the chin for their family, or their livelihood, or wherever they're trying to maintain and just keep life copacetic. And I've never believed that disrespect or unprofessionalism, is gonna, like gonna supersede my what my personal beliefs are. Therefore, if I'm going to be mistreated, then I'll just move on to something else

Kandice Whitaker: 27:15

bring up a really interesting point with the conversation related to people being mistreated at work. It's almost like a martyr scenario. And I recently read an article, it was a dating article, but the thing that the guy said was a red flag was someone who worked at a job that abused them because they didn't feel good enough about themselves to do something else, or to say they deserve something else. Right? And I was like, Whoa, so you could think of it that way as well. Like, listen, get off the cross. Somebody else needs the wood Jesus did all the good for you know, there's no reason for you to be a model martyr. There are plenty of jobs out there. Right. Wow, you just blew my mind with that. That is interesting. I mean, it is a different perspective. And I could see how, especially if you are the sole breadwinner, and you maybe you have some sick people in your family, I it is very easy to get caught in a rut, but your imagination is stronger than your will. If you can will yourself into a rut, you can will yourself out and I'm going to leave it right there. We're gonna take a break. When we come back, we're going to ask Nikki Adams about her best negotiation tips. We'll be back. So tell me, are you enjoying the show? gone ahead and rate us five stars and leave a comment. Now back to the show. All right, y'all, we're back. In the happy hour lounge with our guests today, Nikki Adams. We've had a wonderful conversation about believing in yourself so that you can transition into the things that you want to do. So right now I'm going to ask Nikki, what's the most important thing that you've learned about navigating corporate

Nikki Adams: 28:53

in my years of running towards or away from corporate America? I have learned about corporate politics and understanding that that's just a part of the origins of what corporate America for big conglomerates usually is I've learned about nepotism. You know it's funny when I was younger, my uncle was an educator for a very large district. They actually made a movie about his school district but he had the opportunity Wait a

Kandice Whitaker: 29:28

second, your your your uncle wasn't this Hispanic dude not from lean on me the other movie?

Nikki Adams: 29:32

No, but he was from from lean on me. When he took the job. He had the opportunity to hire me for any job I could have wanted. And I had I mean, he had hundreds and 1000s of opportunities for vacancies. And I'll never forget that he that he hired my friends. I still have friends to this day who are working in education in the job that they were hired for if things haven't moved up and they still arted from day one,

Kandice Whitaker: 30:00

wait a second, I saw that movie, do they have guns, though?

Nikki Adams: 30:05

They probably still do. But he always said to me, I will never give you a job. And I was so angry for so many years and so frustrated. And I was like, I can't believe like, my uncle just won't give me a job. And it was more about him never wanting anybody to say that I had something because I didn't work for it, or because I didn't deserve it. And he didn't want ever anybody to think that he was giving someone an upper hand. And as I've gone through my career, I think part of me is a little bit disappointed that I didn't get an easy opportunity. But then I also realized that I probably wouldn't have valued the job as much. And I may have left given my personality, and then that may or may not have been a reflection on him. But it's funny because the work world is not like that. In big companies. There are so many companies that if you have a son, or a cousin or a friend, and oh, I can get you a job, or I know HR. And so I've never had that door open, but I understand the politics of it. And so you either have to like take it in stride, or that's kind of why I've also gone to independent or grassroots startups, because that culture doesn't exist as much. So I think as long as the corporate company creates a culture of inviting new people to come in, and the people who are there, whether they deserve the opportunity or not, are humble, and knowledgeable, and happy to share, communicate and be transparent, then I think that that's, that's okay, you just have to like take it take the good with the bad. Personally, I recently returned as a consultant in corporate America post COVID, specifically, because I knew that the culture has changed, what will be allowed is no longer or what what I previously remember from my many years prior, and incorporated all the bad things that I remembered, you know, I now see companies who are now willing to work with your work schedule and allow remote and flexibility and you know, more vacation time breakfast and lunch serve that the Office fun workspaces that are inviting. So people want to come to the office and have a reprieve from working from home. So when I saw those benefits, and I saw that they were becoming more employee centric, I decided to reenter, because I felt more confident in that not only could I start to make more demands on what I needed for myself in order to want to work there, but in terms of the employer being acceptable to some of those requests.

Kandice Whitaker: 32:47

So it sounds like you're saying to interview almost, and check out the employers as much as they are interviewing and checking you out?

Nikki Adams: 32:56

Absolutely 100%. And I also think that when you take on that position of going into an interview with questions, being a little bit more demanding, kind of not settling, I honestly think that employers become a little bit more excited about it. Now there's again, a difference between feeling entitled and feeling like you deserve this without having any onus behind it. And then kind of putting your feet in the sand and saying, This is what I need. And you guys are going to want me because I'm a hard worker, and I've proven myself in my past careers, but I'm not going to settle for XYZ. So if you really want me, here's what I need. And I think it's it's a little bit, it's not only more well respected and received, but I think employers sometimes have a little bit more respect for that employee. And they know that they're not going to come in here and they're not going to be as passive, they're going to be more direct, and they may push a little harder, but you may get the result that you probably have been have been lacking, or they haven't you know, you've been getting all these docile employees or yes, people in terms instead of somebody who's an industry interrupter,

Kandice Whitaker: 34:09

like that an asset to any team and industry interrupter. It sounds like we got some great negotiations tips right there. Do you have any other negotiation tips you'd like to share? always ask

Nikki Adams: 34:22

whenever I mean, I think this question is a little passe. Now it's apparently illegal supposedly in some cities and states but if somebody asks you how much you are, you want to make illegal

Kandice Whitaker: 34:34

where like, I know New York has a thing, but most places? No.

Nikki Adams: 34:39

While some a lot of states are now putting forth you know, regulations where you can't ask people what they were making on their last job, supposedly, that but you can still negotiate? And no, of course, but I mean, in terms of being direct, you know, sometimes, I know in the past, I've been like, coax to not answer the question or or maybe you know, be vague in your response. You don't want to pigeonhole yourself, I say, go straight for it. Say what you want be upfront, ask the questions that you need, don't waste anybody's time. Because you could be going through an interview process for days, weeks, months, depending on what the position is. And you could get to the final point of the job, and then hear that the job is way below the scope of what you ever anticipated, and you're not willing to take that risk. You know, I know that in the most recent opportunity that I took. It's funny, because the job title was the lowest the money I wasn't even very sure of it wasn't a question I was asking at the time. And then when they came to me with an offer, their offer was like below 100k. And I correct even that they knew I had 20 years experience, goodbye. And we had had four to five conversations about my experience, you know, my curriculum vitae. And it was like nobody, not one at one point here Did you ask, but I would thought it was assumed. So when they finally came back to me with an offer, I said, I'll be honest with you, you're 40 off the bar, like, I'm really sorry that I wasted your time, I wish we would have had this conversation six interviews ago. And they came back with six, correct six. And they wound up coming back with an offer higher than I asked for, with an incentive bonus, an extra week vacation that I had asked for. Because again, I really tried it, they had the money, they always low, of course they did. And that's my point. That's exactly my point. Don't say don't trust whatever you were making, or are making bump it up. Because people are always trying to, you know, get the most they can for the lease. And you know, again, if you go in with something that you're not so thrilled about, and you keep thinking to yourself, Oh, I'll work my way up, I'll work my way up. Well, there's no such thing correct, it's much harder to get to a number that makes you happy. Once you're in a company, if there's a big margin, you know, there's a gap between what you wanted and what you settled for.

Kandice Whitaker: 37:12

And so don't count on bonuses. Don't count that started, don't get me

Nikki Adams: 37:17

started on that. And, you know, again, everything is discretionary. And a company is always going to put legal language in their agreement that says that they have the discretion to change and policies begin policies and make new policies at their own discretion, without notice, to anyone. So it's an at will, you know, policy for the employer, but never the employee, and you have to be at will, to whatever they want. And so that's why I think it's better to go in asking for more demanding more in a nice and professional way than to just say, I'm gonna settle for whatever you guys want to give me or here's a ballpark and I'm just so pleased that you could, you know, hopefully meet me halfway.

Kandice Whitaker: 38:05

I 100% agree with what you're saying, in general, I'm at the point where I just asked at the beginning, like when the recruiter calls me, what is the range of this position? Is this acceptable or not? Like I've just like,

Nikki Adams: 38:18

right up front? Well, and I also think a lot of that comes the time and maturity in your career. Because obviously, when we were in our early 20s, we may not have been so demanding or feeling like, you know, we had

Kandice Whitaker: 38:32

certain demands. It's like, don't waste time in agreement. But again,

Nikki Adams: 38:37

we I think there's a couple of things that have shifted our age, our experience in the workforce to know what we will and will not tolerate, and also the current culture of work. So like this before the COVID. But yeah, I mean, it's become more so it for us, it was like that way, but I think now in general, the culture is catching up to the perspective that we had all along. And the millennials, it was out of balance before that's the problem. Always out of balance, it will always add a balance. I mean, there's a lot of things out of balance, but corporate, it's hard for me to say that. I'm an optimist It's hard for me to say that but work in general has been very much. It's it's, I kind of I can relate this back to real estate landlord tenant relations, right? In some places, the tenants have more power than the landlord's equity, New York, shout out to New York, right. And so in, in work culture, it was always the employer had the upper hand to tell you what they were going to pay you to tell you what you were going to do and how you were going to do it and what the conditions were going to be and you were just going to accept it. I mean, look at Amazon, right? Never in the past would we have seen someone in manual labor, blue collar workers coming together and saying we're going to start our own union and that was so many years ago, that we stopped doing that We became complacent. We allowed employers to have the upper hand that we've just kind of been docile to it and going along with it, just to keep part of

Kandice Whitaker: 40:09

it is because, right, our government kind of caught up with regulations. And so we didn't need unions as much as we needed them. So I think people really lost the importance of what unions do, and the importance of having a good union job. And, yeah, shout out to Amazon for unionizing recently,

Nikki Adams: 40:33

that wasn't that wasn't on the employer. It wasn't Amazon approaching their employees and saying we'd like to unionize you guys, because we think it'd be in your best interest. It was the employees taking a stance and saying, This is what we want demand and need, Well thats correct? But

Kandice Whitaker: 40:49

remember, many employers, not Amazon, obviously have this history of because, you know, I'm a history nerd of union busting. So the people who are whispering about starting a union, then they're fired, all of a sudden, you gotta did that they did it. So you know, they get a little honorable mention. I'm just saying little just saying. Fair is fair.

Nikki Adams: 41:07

Hey, gotta give some credit where credit's due.

Kandice Whitaker: 41:10

I mean, when's the last time we had a union newly created? I think we still had children working in factories. We're coming up with its not funny but it's true. Oh, God, I had to quit sixth grade so I can go make this shirt real quick. Well, anyway, it has been a ball having you here with us on the happy hour podcast. I am so grateful that you decided to stop by shout out to our guest today. Nikki Adams. We definitely need to have you back on the couch again.

Unknown: 41:44

Count me in.

Kandice Whitaker: 41:45

Dope. All right, y'all. We out. Wasn't that a great interview? Hold up before you grab your hat and head out. Make your way to facebook.com and join the Kandice with the K Whitaker's Facebook group. That's where you can find our free Happy Hour community, luxuriating and chatting. Thank you for listening. And if you enjoyed the show, please leave a review. That's how we keep the lights on. If you're on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, feel free to shoot me a message and say Hey, girl, hey, I'm Kandice with the K Whitaker and I would love to hear from you. And with that, I love you. And I mean, you know why? Because there are people in the world who hate for no reason I choose to love for no reason. I believe as the great Martin Luther King Jr. said pain is too great a burden to bear and I choose to love peace y'all be great.