Secure the Bag - Finding You

On this week's Bail Yourself Out Happy Hour Podcast, we enter the world of introverts. The show's creator/host, Kandice Whitaker, welcomes talented entrepreneur, multi-degreed speech pathologist Jessica Bonner and discusses education, career, and quality of life choices. Bonner is an entrepreneur specializing in converting people pleasers and introverts into business professionals who properly advocate for themselves in the workplace. 

So welcome to the Bail Yourself Out Happy Hour lounge again; pull up a chair, maybe an adult beverage, and most importantly, your brain, as Kandice and Jessica share employment gems and well-worn wisdom on succeeding in business.  

In business, the landscape is littered with varied personalities. Unfortunately, employees ill-equipped to advocate for themselves do exist. This week, speech therapist Jessica Bonner joins our faithful host and creator Kandice Whitaker on The Bail Yourself Out Happy Hour Podcast and shares her wisdom as a sage for those introverts and people-pleasing employees who lack the skillsets to advocate appropriately for themselves with management/employers. 

Jessica and Kandice also cover Bonner's successful four-degreed collegiate career, Bonner's career choices,  even her career rejections, and their immense value in her career path. 

Finally, the hosts assess the merits of financial and workplace success contrasted against life goals and a healthy quality of life. The Bail Yourself Podcast's mission has always been to pass along gems to enlighten you, the audience, in strategic moves in the business world. This week's episode is an exceptional catalyst to ponder your career choice and ensure your current path is the correct one to achieve your life goals.

Keep up with Kandice Whitaker and the BAIL Yourself Out Community Online
www.linktr.ee/bailyourselfoutpod
© 2023 Alpha and Omega Consulting Inc. All rights reserved.

Transcript

Kandice Whitaker  0:00  
Welcome to the bail yourself out Happy Hour Podcast where each week we'll help you navigate the corporate jungle. Here's your host Kandice Whitaker is happy hour. I'm your coworker Candice with the K pull up a chair and your favorite drink for the bail yourself out. Happy Hour is about to start now. Hey, hey, hey there friends. Welcome to the bail yourself out Happy Hour lounge. The question for you. How did you pick your career? You know, for some people, they've always known what they wanted to do, but I really think they're the lucky ones. For many of us, we had to find our path through trial and error. Well, our amazing co host today is a wonderful example of believing in yourself and learning from life experiences, but more importantly, she transformed those experiences into finding her life's purpose. Jessica J. Bonner is a serial entrepreneur owner for other prizes, and she's a speech pathologist. And you know what after the break, you'll meet her we'll be back

to the bail yourself out Happy Hour podcast. The bail acronym is used to outline the steps to implementing resilience in your life be believe you can win a accept change as part of the journey I inventory strengths and learn from what's happened. Together, we'll unpack the bail framework in action. Now back to the show.

Hey there friends welcome to the bail yourself out Happy Hour lounge hanging out with us as today's co hosts. We got Jessica Bonner, my new home girl who's a speech pathologist and entrepreneur. Hey, girl, hey, welcome, bouche. What do you want the world to know about Jessica Baran.

Jessica Bonner  1:41  
Okay, well, I'm a speech language pathologist. I've been working in schools for the last three and a half years, mainly with elementary aged kids. So that's been a fun adventure. For me recently, I've decided I'm going to quit working for an employer in the school environment. And I'm going to set out on my own and do my own speech pathology contracting work out here in the Birmingham, Alabama area. Also am a business owner, founder and owner of for the process consulting, which was a tutoring business was actually turned transitioning from a tutoring business and into a business focusing on helping other individuals, specifically introverts, but also people pleasers, who have a hard time saying no advocate for them sales, and to say no without any feelings of guilt and get what they want. But yes, I'm a native of the Central Alabama area, I've moved around the central Alabama area alive right now. Currently, I reside outskirts of Birmingham, Alabama. And it's a joy to be here.

Kandice Whitaker  2:44  
I'm so happy that you're here with us. So I want to tell everybody how I learned about you. I was actually in Alabama on business visiting my business partner. And I was listening to a pod, somebody else's pod, because I love Potts. And Jessica was there. And the things that you said you were so open and so real, and many people do not have the fortitude to be able to speak their truth and your quiet southern laid back way. Yeah, I speak the truth. But you know, I'm a New Yorker. So it's a little bit more in your face my style, right? But I was like, I love this vibe. She's so laid back and calm, but honest. And I love the sweet tea honesty. That's what we're gonna call you. No, but for real, though, and nobody ever believes this when I say it. But in my real life. I'm an introvert, right? Introvert doesn't mean shy. It means you get your energy from being alone. I definitely get my energy from being alone. I'm not a shy person. Those are two different things. My father would never allow me to be shy. He'd always be like me out there, you know. And but then I also have a part of that people pleasing, or I should say had a part of that people pleasing as part of my personality, especially in my younger days, right? Little Candice was a people pleaser. And I wanted to make everybody happy. And I wanted to make sure that everybody was on the same page. And as you get older you weren't you know what, that is not my life. That is not my problem, because you'll see life passing you by and people doing their own thing. And you just there, right? So I think the work that you're doing is so important. And I am so happy that you are here to talk to us. But I want to hear a little bit more about like, how did you get into specifically a business for introverts, so people like me, and people who are people pleasers, again, like me, so that's definitely what resonated with me.

Jessica Bonner  4:47  
I had to stand up for myself a lot. And I I noticed over the last five years, I had to stand up for myself a lot. Even recently, most recently, I worked for a contract company and I had to stand up for myself and I recall just standing up for myself Something related about pay. And I just thought it was gonna be me asking simple questions about my pay and why things didn't look right. What were the discrepancies about? And I was faced with retaliation. I'm talking about benefits being taken away from me. And something else that was being promised to me, been withheld from me to the point where I had to say, Well, yeah, we don't want to do what we need to do. I can quit right now. And I can also turn over all correspondences I've had between myself and company, text messages, emails, everything, and I've turned over to the head, especially education, or the school system will yell at me. And we can work it out like that. Now, I was sitting in two hours now that they that I was looking for, for the last two weeks was in my inbox, and hey, and then I got a bonus on top of that,

Kandice Whitaker  5:43  
right? Don't play with my money. I don't play those games. Oh.

Jessica Bonner  5:48  
So I went from getting told no one getting these benefits that I was supposed to pay to get in the benefit. And getting a bonus, I didn't even know it was due to me, apparently at the beginning of the school year, just just for me to stay the rest of this school year. Right? That's right,

Kandice Whitaker  6:02  
we're dropping bombs over here.

Jessica Bonner  6:08  
I just did a simple email. And one day, I just sat with that. And I was so grateful, like, Oh, my goodness, I was able to fight another battle. Again, I'm finally like, this is national company. I won't say their name. But it's a national company. They do business in many states, in the United States of America. And so yeah, they're a pretty big name and contract companies. And so I was thinking, Man, I want to give a huge contract company, I've gone against other companies that have tried to undermine me some kind of way, I've had to even shut it down at one of my former universities, in a grant program where we had something went on and make some changes, some changes were made there. And some payouts were made in that case, as well. And so I thought to myself, Wow, out of all the things that I really done in my life, and I've achieved in my life, I felt like I've had the biggest success, and advocated for myself, and even as I've advocated for myself, within my marriage against my abusive existence, and I just didn't believe in him. So that was the best thing I could have ever done with that. So noticing in the relationship sector, school sector, job sector, even as an entrepreneur, I could really stand up for myself and advocate for myself and win big in all those areas. And I'll say it, surely, I'm not the only one who needs like, you know, if I had someone to assist me, that would have been beautiful. But certainly there are people out there who could use and assistance to help them in these various areas to stand up for them sales when be and then obviously that contributes to confidence for that person to continue going forward and advocating for themselves, no matter the situation. So that was absolutely,

Kandice Whitaker  7:45  
if you don't speak up for yourself, then who will? Right I totally believe that. Now, you mentioned a little bit earlier when you started that for other prizes, consulting. And by the way, I love that name. Tell people how you got that name, because you told me and I was like, I love that.

Jessica Bonner  8:02  
Yes. So years ago, in 2016, I started for the process consulting around this time, I used to participate in multiple sweepstakes and contests. And I would just go

Kandice Whitaker  8:13  
does that Ed McMahon sweepstakes, Jessica the one winning because she'd only one fill in that damn crap out.

Jessica Bonner  8:21  
Man, yeah, but I need go line, apparently, you get his Google sweepstakes contests. And there will be different websites, we're just a list of classes. You know, I guess it'd be a blog I didn't even think about it was really a blog. And it's different blogs out there with the contests and sweepstakes listed on them, and where their due dates and their details. And I will often look very closely at the details, because I want to understand what you can win. So then there was always here's the grand prize, you know, the grand prize, you know, you could win a brand new computer, sometimes the contest was a because it's really because he went to Vacation, we were in a car. And then in the fine print, they will say you can win the grand prize or other prizes. You know, so there's the grand prize or other prizes. And so the other prize, we're often smaller. So for instance, say the grand prize was a computer, maybe the other price would be, you know, it could be an iPad. So like, you know, the computer obviously is the one that will be of greater value than I pay it. So that'd be your other price and interest enough at one time in the classes I did when I pay it as one of my other prizes for that contest was a $6,000 grand prize for that person who bought it. But one of the other prizes was an iPad, and it was the first prize. Oh, that was the end. It was the first generation I pay it back when it was first released. So it was a brand new first generation iPad back when it was first released. Yeah, so that was all my other prizes. So it was a smaller prize. I thought to myself one day after winning some of these other prizes from these different customers. I say, Oh, these other prizes are actually not bad. I have never complained about it. They're actually over Hi I value to me that I started, I don't even think any more about the grand prize. So when I thought by the business name, I thought about, okay, a lot of people want to say, oh, I need to have this grand prize, I need to be the smartest one in the room or something like that, I need to have that. And I say, Well, why don't you consider the gifts that you want to have, which in that case will be your other prizes? Right, you're smaller, the smaller prizes out there. But they're not invaluable. Just because you know, they don't have value just because you don't think they have value, you're not paying attention to them. So if you actually exercise those gifts in those skills, you'll find a lot of value with that it actually can build you up and take you to the goal that you're trying to achieve. You just got to

Kandice Whitaker  10:38  
work it out or preach yourself. That's a whole sermon right there that will preach yourself. We could do a offering and go home. Yeah, the things that you overlook, because you're too busy trying to get to what you want to get. But then you end up with something that was valuable on the way you know, how many times in our lives do we end up in relationships where our goal was one thing, okay, it didn't end up being our goal. But we got other stuff that wasn't actually bad. It was good stuff along the way. That'll preach yourself, girl. So for other prizes consulting, you started out as a tutoring business. And I'm going to tie it back to the article that I mentioned a little bit earlier, that I sent to you how to figure out if a job is right for you. So obviously, if it's tutoring now and you've decided to transition in another way, why did you make that transition? How did you figure that out? Personally?

Jessica Bonner  11:31  
Well, I had been doing tutoring about 13 years, and most of my students actually had been in my universities, people who don't know, my dad, he would call me a professional student, he would joke about that. But anyway, I went through five programs, and I've earned four degrees from going through five programs in about a third

Kandice Whitaker  11:47  
degree. Yes,

Jessica Bonner  11:49  
two masters. So I went to three universities to acquire all those degrees. And every last one of those universities, I did tutor, I did peer tutoring. I started out there. And and I did it for several years. And so I opened up for the prices consulting in 2016 Did the independent thing. And so I had been doing it for a long time. And I think just more recent years when I was thinking about my purpose. And you know what I'm really called here to do, I felt like the tutoring was actually helping me to reach what I was really supposed to be doing. So it was beautiful. Because I got to meet a variety of people on the way different parents, different students learn different personalities, how to be patient with people, that was one of the best deals I could have ever picked up one of the best deals I could have ever had, being a tutor. But then in this day and time I'm thinking well, your greatest impact is not in tutoring. It's like for instance, when I explained about me wanting to switch over my tutoring business to one that's focusing on helping introverts and people pleasers advocate for themselves better than I thought, No, I've had the greatest success with that my purpose is tied up in helping other people acquire that same success for themselves. So it was really more so related to purpose and impact. I had my impact in my time of tutoring. But the impact that I can make now transitioning to this other calls with helping people advocate for themselves is even greater.

Kandice Whitaker  13:07  
I love that I'm just going to put into universe one day soon, we are going to have a retreat on location where I'm talking about life coaching, and how to get you a career together and you are telling people how to advocate for themselves as one of my speakers. We're gonna be international I'm putting this out there in the universe. Come on Jesus. putting this out there in the universe. So I love how you basically used something you learned along the way, right? Because that wasn't your intention to be a tutor. And you were able to get some skills from there you basically for other prizes, it I love that and then transition into what ended up being your purpose. And I love that because so often people think like, I graduated college, I need to know what I'm supposed to do for the rest of my life. And I'm like, yo, sometimes you figure that junk out on the way. Yes, you got to be doing stuff. You got to be participating in stuff to figure out what it is you're supposed to be doing. I mean, when I was in college, I didn't know what I do was even an option. Right? And so depending on what your true interests are, you might not have even been exposed to what you're supposed to be doing in your life yet. Right. So this is an amazing I'm gonna put a paperclip in it right here. We're going to take a break, and we'll be right back in our virtual Happy Hour community. The party never stops follow Candice with a que Whitaker on social media, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, and Tiktok. Now back to the show. Hey, y'all, we are back with our guest co host today just to Jake Bonner, from other prizes consulting. Want to ask you this? Did you always know what you wanted to do? I think I know the answer to that. But I'm gonna let you speak for yourself. No,

Jessica Bonner  14:59  
I did not. at all, especially being a child who was extremely shy, I was actually the child who was really shy and shy away from a lot of people a lot of the time. And so I was very watchful of my surroundings. And somewhere along the way, when I was a teenager, and I was in high school, I decided, oh, I want to be a teacher. And that I remember going to college and I had the opportunity to do some summer work at the girls Incorporated, of Central Alabama. So we know that is Girls Inc. and I went there. And I had to work with kids from ages, I believe, five to 16. And I learned very quickly, that I did not want to be a teacher. So I'm actually really grateful for that, because I did not take that path of going, you know, into school. For me personally. And you know that there's not always and I did not get teachers, because teachers are very important. I just knew for me, that was not my gift to go out there to be a teacher. So if you're a teacher, Matt appalls to you. But for me, when I went out there, I was like, Oh, this is definitely that for me. So then I had to pivot and try to figure out something else. And I know, one of the things I wanted to do was be a writer and author. But I coming out of high school, I had poor writing skills. And interestingly, no, by the time I learned how to write the will, in all the university programs I hated, I no longer wanted to be a writer. So

Kandice Whitaker  16:26  
I'm just curious.

Jessica Bonner  16:27  
Well, it was specifically like a fiction writer. So I guess I could see myself in the future doing some more nonfiction things, but it's just as I powder, more things on my plate, at the time being it's not like the top of the list, like it's on the list, like the probably do, for instance, a autobiography or something like that, or how to own something. But it was by the time I wanted to be a fiction writer, I have zero interest in amputation, right? Oh, no, it's just changed for me. And it's just because life experiences, if that makes sense. Yeah, I totally get

Kandice Whitaker  16:55  
that once upon a time, I thought I wanted to be a classical musician. Oh, I

Jessica Bonner  16:59  
get a yes. Yes. It's a you know, your interests change or not, but I'm out, right? It's on the one day, but it just won't be on it fiction, you know, anymore. Oh, no, I've never known what I wanted to do interest. And other years, you were talking about how we haven't always been exposed to what we want to do speech, like pathology was one of those things that I mean, I really enjoy and love the field. And I see myself being in the field for a good long time. But I was not exposed. And so that really spoke to us, I was 26.6 years old with like, you know, for a lot of people going into college, and they entering college at 18. You know, that was something that was never on the table for me. I never knew about it, never heard about it. And when it came to my school, we spoke about it, it was just not a thing. And I think a lot of times when you go to school, for instance, predominantly School of color, my school was predominately black, you will not know what interests and every time you know, your interest to a speech language pathologist pathology, master's program, most of the grand majority of students are white. So they allow that exposure in their high schools, and whatnot. And then when they go into college, oh, I want to take the education science disorders path and stuff. And I know what I want to do and, and then they go to the master's program, and they industrysafe with allergy. And they're like 22 or 21 when they go into grad school, and they come out to 23. Right? So they're very young speech language pathologist, but everybody had exposure flagged by post soldier 26. Right. So it just took a lot of navigating, going through my different degree programs, before I finally landed on each line pathology and entrepreneurship. And so I think those are my two main things. But yeah, it was a good long journey to get here.

Kandice Whitaker  18:34  
You know what, that is totally valid. I had a journey that was really similar trying a bunch of different things. And I had other guests this season who talked about basically the same thing. I think for people like us from the season diaspora, we have a lot of things that are different, right? A lot of times we'll go to schools that don't have maybe the same funding the same access to things. So inherently we're starting from a different playing field, what we're exposed to is just different. And so the fact that not only were you able to in your own time, navigate professionally, and also in your education and then advocate for yourself, it doesn't matter how long it takes you, at least it got done, figured out. I mean, out of those experiences that influenced you though, personally, professionally, and also in your career, which ones were the most impactful?

Jessica Bonner  19:29  
I will say personally because I believe a lot of things start at home and we hear that a lot with with children in the household now and they say everything starts at home. My mother she was really on to my sister and I have a sister who was 11 months younger than me and for a while she was a single parent and so she remarried and she had my stepdad had come to the picture but she my dad is still there they mean they did a great job collectively helping to raise us up and but my mom was really there personally like hey, this education needs to be strong. Yeah, and yeah, by going into the real world, they started looking at your your work ethic, you know Yeah high school and going forward. She was huge on that. And because of her influence, I was able to go ahead and graduate valedictorian she was there for me when I was in college struggling through some of those papers when I said I had come out of high school we writer, so she was there by my side helping me to, you know, get that guidance I needed when I needed to write those essays. And as a result today, you went

Kandice Whitaker  20:21  
way too fast passed. I was valedictorian. We just go disrespect the V. Right. So respect though your name. You are the valedictorian. A lot of people can't say that, but even think about that. Think about what you just said though. I graduated valedictorian of my class, my writing skills weren't that strong. How ashtag only in a black school? Yeah,

Jessica Bonner  20:46  
it's true. It's true in I guess, in that school, it was the strongest out of my classmates, right and less relative. Yeah, yeah, out of that. But also remember the first research paper here written in high school, I was a junior in high school, and it was a D, though that was not good. And that's that get it out. So I came into college and when I went to university, I went to one of the schools is considered one of the more highest themed colleges in the state of Alabama Samford University is a private university down here. And so I guess in Alabama is like the Harvard of Alabama. And so I had a lot of doubt in myself when I went there, because for instance, I didn't have strong writing skills, yet to really work hard today, my mom was really there to help out in force. And by the time I graduated, there was a schoolwork I picked up a dual major degree right? And had gained amazing research and writing skills and was one of the best on both writing and everything just kind of went from there. But Oh, go

Kandice Whitaker  21:45  
Hold on. We go rewind that one, too. We went from insecure. I don't know if I'm supposed to be here to a double major, that junk is hard. Like,

Jessica Bonner  21:55  
I really was about to drop one and love on my mom's like, girl, you mean anyone is English majors? I thought I've English. I don't think I want to do this. But my mouth. I want to say you've been here during the three years. So you've been at one.

Kandice Whitaker  22:06  
I know. That's right. I know. That's right.

Jessica Bonner  22:10  
I'm glad she you know, she pushed me to do that. And then I added communication studies which I knew I needed to work on my ability to speak and communicate, because I like I said, I was very shy, extremely shy. I mean, when I read my valedictorian speech, graduated high school, I was looking at the paper the whole time, and people were okay, but you read it. Okay, read it. But you know, that's how shocked I was it was just like, No, I can't say. So I knew at least in college, I was self aware enough to know like, I need to take on this other major to help me to acquire those speaking skills. And by the end of that program, I hadn't pressed myself I even have video footage from the younger Jessica doing her video presentation back in the day. And it was different from my presentation of Jessica, when she first the first year of college being very like, oh, it's chiming in and stuff, but it was two totally different people.

Kandice Whitaker  22:57  
Hey, I love that. Okay, so if you had to give advice to 18 year old Jessica Chantel, what would you say to her,

Jessica Bonner  23:04  
I say you need to both believe in yourself. But I also want to say this is one of the things I thought about this this morning. You're not trying to go out of your way to be liked by everyone else. I remember going into college, and it was something that I think my dad said it was so creepy that you did it just with it. But I remember I will by people like oh Facebook, who went to the college and who they were also in my class, and I will just legitime messages like, Hey, my name is Jessica also go to psychologies you. But they were in the same class to get like we're in the site. Like we went to the same. We were all freshmen in the same college that year, right. And I was just so excited to meet people so but I was on a bike and of course I had people never spoke it was so great why you do that. But it was like such a desperation to be like at that time. And I was like, please do not go out with this desperation to be like, people are gonna choose whoever they want to choose anyway, be you Be true to yourself. You know, don't don't stray from being true to yourself. Don't let people's any words they may say to you, especially with some negative, throw you off your track and your path on who you are with, like, try new things. Don't be afraid to try new things, step out of that shy bubble a bit more, speak up a bit more as to build that skill of speaking up now. Because you're going to need it threw out a lifetime going on jobs and relationships, family members, all the things develop that skill now. So and you will go very far and always was believed in your sales.

Kandice Whitaker  24:32  
Oh, I love that. Alright, so this seems like a perfect place to take a break. When we get back from the break. We're going to talk about how to figure out if a job or career path is right for you. We'll be back. So tell me are you enjoying the show? gone ahead and rate us five stars and leave a comment. Now back to the show. All right, so we are back with our guest co host today in the happy hour lounge, Jessica J. Bonner really almost at Dr. Bonner? I don't know I felt that in my shop. I go to med school. That's exactly what I say to Oh, my goodness. But you never know you absolutely never know. So I loved hearing about your path and your advice for younger Jessica little J. Right? Earlier, we talked about this article that Harvard Business Review put out a couple of months ago, five ways to figure out if a job is right for you. And I kind of wanted to get your feedback of what you think. Number one, they said is validate the job description. What do you think about that? I could tell you what I think I'm like, you feel that way too. Like, what is validating the job description mean? Because first of all, a lot of times, I think employers are not really good at explaining what they need, you don't really know until you're in there, the job description is like, and then the other thing is they throw in that other duties as assigned, which pretty much negates the whole job description. So I don't like that one. Right. I don't even really think that's important. I would more focus on the title of the position, and make sure that it's something congruent with your path. But and and just kind of scan the job description, because then they put in vague things like an ability to communicate conflict management, like, what does that even mean?

Jessica Bonner  26:23  
All right, right. Like, yeah, I would definitely go get some clarification on that. Like, if I was uncertain, like you said, it's ambiguous terms, getting some clarification on it. Because if they don't know what they're talking about, you can catch it real quick in a conversation.

Kandice Whitaker  26:36  
That part. So I like that. So use the ambiguous language that is in the job description as a question during the interview. If you get one, I like that. That's a good way to do that. That's great advice. Actually, number two was pay attention to the company culture.

Jessica Bonner  26:52  
Oh, yes, absolutely. It

Kandice Whitaker  26:54  
is very important. The culture is the hardest thing to change, you can tell a lot about the company related to the site, you can tell a lot about a company's culture, with the interview process.

Jessica Bonner  27:07  
I say, yes, you can, especially if there's like a lot of groupthink. I know that's one of the things that's gonna be a huge red flag. I mean, like, everybody just gonna go for this one concept. But ideally, it'd be the most wrong thing on the planet, with everybody doing it as a red flag right there. I'm out of here. I can do that.

Kandice Whitaker  27:26  
Yeah, and that's an interesting thing, too. Because assuming it's like a panel interview, or multiple people, those are very, very hard. I think panel interviews are hard. Because ultimately, you need to get everybody who's on the interview to like you. That's hard, that's hard to connect. And get multiple people to to like you. Because by virtue of the fact that you're at the interview, they think you're qualified. Right? So the interview part is, do you like me? That's totally subjective.

Jessica Bonner  28:00  
Right? So I will say I'm thinking about looking at the, if they seem like they they breed desperations though, because I one thing I will say about this have been on the end of being an employee of the contract company, I'm leaving, I know doing for instance, COVID, um, a lot of places. So for people just leaving, right to resign from your jobs. And I believe the company that was working for and tried to plug in the best candidate, but I have someone they I think they just wanted to these interviews was like, Okay, you look good. We hire you, without really considering what it could have done to the culture that they had. Because when I was hired on at that company three years ago, the culture was overall good. Then a pandemic came in, it seemed like they tried to put some people in the spot just to fill a spot. And it seemed like it was the bad apple sport. The bunch, unfortunately, can happen. Yeah, yeah. And they are solid, they should have been careful about so they're losing more people now. Because they chosen the bad apples by I think they they're deciding now after the fact oh, we're going to try to change it up or get rid of some people. But you know, it's a little too late in our case, for instance, is so too little too late. Right? about the Bible. We're desperate for somebody that might not be your company.

Kandice Whitaker  29:15  
That's a great point. Oh, let's talk about number three. Then number three is discuss salary and benefits. Here's what I like what they have to say, related to salary and benefits, though I never thought about this. Ask the employer is your compensation structured, according to my previous income and experience? Whoa. So it kind of turns that around on them in some places, like New York, I could think off the top of my head like they have to put the salary out there. And they can't ask you what your previous was because that's not really fair. Right? That's not your business.

Jessica Bonner  29:52  
But yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's true. That's true. I like that a lot too. I really do like that a lot of us To ensure that you can best advocate for yourself, because, I mean, like you said, if that's not out there, and then you get pulled into that job, and then you're feel like you're learning that you're being under compensated. I mean, that wasn't there. So, yeah, I love that question. Because you know, they have to be on their P's and Q's with it. They gotta be. And

Kandice Whitaker  30:17  
That actually happened to me. That happened to me early very early in my career, and I learned that I was getting paid the lowest and pretty much everybody else who looked like me and my department was getting paid much lower than the people who didn't look like us. We also weren't getting bonuses, and they were we didn't even know about bonuses like we was getting done dirty. Wow. If you don't know you don't know. I later learned from a friend in HR that Oh, no, You never take the first offer. Always negotiate. They always try to lowball you.

Jessica Bonner  30:48  
Right, right. Yeah. So that's what I'm learning with the contract company I was with. It wasn't even till I told this company that I was quitting. And I actually started looking job hunting with another company contract company, and they actually found a job is the same as that job. But in another district, it pays $6 More an hour. I was like, Lord, I know, I've been low balling myself here, saying, oh, here is the current contract company, and they're abusing me and underpaying me like now I know I'm going about this job. Now. I learned it the hard way, too.

Kandice Whitaker  31:17  
If you don't know you don't know. And you know, that's why we're here. That's why I'm doing this podcast, because I hope that somebody will hear and learn something and be able to be better. Next interaction.

Jessica Bonner  31:28  
Right, right. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I'm here for it do.

Kandice Whitaker  31:32  
Absolutely. So other thing that they mentioned was bonuses. I don't like bonuses, because those are completely subjective. Can't control if this large conglomerate organization is going to make money faster. I mean, I can do my best, as grandma will say laboring in the vineyard. But even if I do my best, I don't know what everybody else gonna do. I don't know if COVID gonna happen. I cannot base my life and livelihood off of a bonus. Like, what if you decide you don't like me, you won't give it to me. Because that just happens to

Jessica Bonner  32:16  
I can now just let this what happened? Honestly, personally, deep down in my soul, I feel like that's what happened to me. Like, I feel like because my company has given me a bonus at the start of every school year, open to this school year. And I thought that's interesting. I was thinking maybe they do, because they also seemed like they should restructure stuff every year. And they I had lost my recruiter that was over me in the prior school year, but they hadn't assigned me a new one. And so as a result, their recruiter, I would have had would have, you know, still stood up, say, hey, a bonus ramped is taking the company, which is doing something different, and they gave me a raise. So I was thinking, Okay, so there's not gonna be a bonus because I got a raise. So I had nothing explained to me or anything. And it wasn't until I got into it with some of these folks in HR who's trying to dig out benefits. I'm not gonna try it today. Like I wasn't owed anything. And then they tried to rectify real fast, so I wouldn't spill the tea or something like a canary right to the people in power, that there's oh, by the way, you were supposed to have gotten a bonus at the beginning of the school year. So yeah, and I just feel like it was because like, the folks didn't like me anyway, they were just gonna happen to forget it. And then also, they gave it to me to keep me there. And also they knew in this company, they give you a bonus. And if you quit, suddenly, they can take away from you. But so but this time, they didn't have the leverage, because they had not given it to me in the first place. Try to be sneaky, trying to keep it from somebody and apparently Give it to me to keep me there. So the new Battlefield, then they can take it back. But I was like, Well, I was you gave me my bonus. I'm cool. I was gonna stay here at least did he put his keys anyway? Because that's important to me. But yeah, I'm glad I stood my ground on that and was able to get him out of school like, because they didn't like me forcing my hands either like me that that was the reason I never got it.

Kandice Whitaker  33:54  
And that's the inherent problem with bonuses and things that are subjective. Yeah, that is the inherent problem right there. Okay, so number four is ensure the job meets your career goal. I just had a really interesting conversation with one of my friends about that this week. Basically, she's in transition, and she's looking for her next gig. And she's at the point where she would be eligible for a C suite position VP of something. And I said to her, says, those kinds of jobs or life jobs, meaning that you can't be VP President Director, with a not calling you when you on vacation? Is that what you want? Right? So number four is ensure that job meets your career goals. Candace would say ensure the job meets your career and life goals, because your life matters, too. That's what I think that's my two cents. Yeah,

Jessica Bonner  34:57  
I agree. 100% With that, yes. Okay. As I get older that I think because you know, I've been in the entrepreneurship space, you've been in this space as well, I don't know, I like freedom. I don't want to be bogged down to like a job all day, you know, like, and I understand people who are in their jobs, they love their job, and it fits their life and everything, and it's perfect for them as you go forward. But for me, like, my life goals today, I personally don't want to have to be like, it'll school all day and say, for instance, a conference calm. So we've talked about few conferences that we will go to, and there's sometimes they're having a rainy day in the middle of the week, and I have to be at the school working. But I would have loved to go into it. But I didn't have any extra days to take off to go to the conference. But now I'm locked in. So for my life, because I'm also a business owner and entrepreneur outside of being a speech language pathologist, that does not help me in that aspect. So it I'm kind of cheated in that way. I mean, it's my own fault, because I just have to stay on the job. But I mean, yeah, so that's one of the reasons I know today, as I'm changing up, and I move into that space of just doing full time entrepreneurship, I am looking at, doesn't meet my career and life goals. That's what I'm looking at.

Kandice Whitaker  36:06  
I love that. Because I think so often as people, we have been conditioned in the United States of America to be good little worker bees, we don't even consider ourselves. Forget that junk. What do you want to do? Yeah, in my mind, I think very similarly to you, this amount of money will keep my life going. But then I need to have this availability and be able to come and go as I please. And those are the things that are important to me. So you make your life choices, according to that. So number five, though, is interesting. It's interesting, because it's a little creepy to me, I'm not gonna lie. It says conduct your background checks on the organization. Okay, that's fine. That's normal, you know, Glassdoor, whatnot. But the manager, what are the things this suggests is go on LinkedIn and look for former employees and ask them I was like, oh, no, that's weird. You're weird college thing you were talking about? That's like, right up there. Like, that's, that's kind of weird. I don't know, if you're worried about that.

Jessica Bonner  37:08  
I will say end of the day, but because it was our way we stood under the date. Like,

Kandice Whitaker  37:13  
The college thing was weird. You know what, I'm gonna free you of that. My oldest daughter when she went to temple, she, like met all these people on Facebook. And like, I was like, really? You just started talking to people on Facebook, and they weren't normal about it. I think it's less weird when you're 1819 20. But now we all 35 and up, you find people on LinkedIn and your hands. And just because my experience with a person is one thing, your experience might be completely different. Because we have different ways of being in the world. How do you know that the person that you're reaching out to was in a butthead? Huh?

Jessica Bonner  37:52  
Hey, that's a that's a good point. That's good to know. Yeah. The only thing I will say about that is like, you have to reach out to a variety, like, like several a formal, like people who work for the person or people who work for the people, that a manager or who works with person in the past. Yeah, yeah. And get the consensus between those people. That's all. Yeah, no, but I mean, I've just Yeah, I have to say, well, for us, to people who are going to do that, if you're gonna try to get a good, you know, understanding that you would,

Kandice Whitaker  38:24  
So I have a funny story. This actually happened to me and my friends told me I was crazy. I don't really care. One of my former managers who I was real cool with, reached out to me on LinkedIn about a person that I had recently worked with, and he was like, What do you think about that? And I was like, Hey, Brian, because that was his name. Thanks for reaching out. She's crazy, right? Don't do it was like Candace, you are crazy. I can't believe you said that. I said what I said maybe I should have used a couple more words been a little nice about it but crazy. I said what I said

Jessica Bonner  39:08  
Oh my goodness layers, but she was honest though. You told me I'll say that a lot. I would have thought it

Kandice Whitaker  39:17  
Was because you ain't gonna say that I recommend to her because she crazy showing up? Absolutely not. But oh my goodness. We have had a wonderful episode here today. I am so happy that you joined us as our guest in the happy hour lounge. And we learned a lot man. I love that you are so open about your journey trying different things just to see what fits we got to normalize that we got to get people to know you know what if you trying something a work in it, don't feel good. If you wake up in the morning and you're tired and you got a headache. Try something else boo. And that's okay. Because on the other side of that is freedom.

Jessica Bonner  39:59  
Absolutely. Absolutely, and I love some freedom.

Kandice Whitaker  40:03  
Because what we are for other prizes, I love that. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Jessica Bonner  40:13  
Thank you and we out.

Kandice Whitaker  40:17  
Wasn't that a great interview? Hold up before you grab your hat and head out, make your way to facebook.com and join the candidates with a que Whitaker's Facebook group. That's where you can find our free Happy Hour community, luxuriating and chatting. Thank you for listening. And if you enjoyed the show, please leave a review. That's how we keep the lights on. If you're on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, feel free to shoot me a message and say Hey, girl, hey, I'm Candice with the Kay Whitaker and I would love to hear from you. And with that, I love you. And I mean, you know why? Because there are people in the world who hate for no reason I choose to love for no reason. I believe as the great Martin Luther King Jr. said hate is too great a burden to bear and I choose to love peace shall be great.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai