BAIL Yourself Out
The new Bail Yourself Out podcast is hosted by Kandice Whitaker, a successful entrepreneur, and specialist in navigating corporate culture. With a fresh new approach to maximizing optimal career moves - the Bail Yourself Out podcast is where the power lunch and the after-work happy hour intersect for dynamic business discussions in a relaxed atmosphere.
BAIL Yourself Out
Building the Plane While Flying It
On the latest episode of The Bail Yourself Out Podcast, creator and host Kandice "with a K" Whitaker welcomes lifelong friend and former high school classmate to the co-host chair. Mr. Michael Wilson is an artist, curator, and collegiate professor. Practical employment choice or a passionate, personally fulfilling, artistic career were the options for Michael. Bails' host Kandice, gets the facts and all the tea on Michael's journey to a fulfilling career choice. So if you have career doubts, this is your episode. The hosts found their career paths over time and are eager to share the lessons learned with the audience.
From the external pressures that complicate collegiate life to understanding the most lucrative college majors to finding your joy and, ultimately, your proper career path, Kandice and Michael cover it all. The Co-hosts also weigh the merits of service and mentorship throughout a chosen profession. They analyze the values of being both a mentee and mentor over a career and sometimes serving as both simultaneously.
So welcome to the lounge, pull up a seat, and your favorite beverage The Bail Yourself Out Happy Hour podcast is back with another great episode - just for you.
Keep up with Kandice Whitaker and the BAIL Yourself Out Community Online
www.linktr.ee/bailyourselfoutpod
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Welcome to the bail yourself out Happy Hour Podcast where each week we'll help you navigate the corporate jungle. Here's your host, Kandice Whitaker.
Kandice Whitaker:Nope! Its happy hour. I'm your coworker Kandice with the K pull up a chair in your favorite drink for the bail yourself out Happy Hour is about to start now. Welcome to the bail yourself out Happy Hour lounge friends. So have you ever had questions about your future? Did you have a hard time selecting your major in college? I definitely did. So I picked a major that I thought would be easy. I started out with music wrong. I was definitely wrong. So if you were like me, what did you do? Well, I can tell you what I did. I switched majors a couple of times, and then I switched jobs several more times. Until I found something that worked for me. I believe that some things in life can only really be achieved by experience by learning. Thus, you have to try. You have to try things, get out there and try things and see what sticks. Well, our co host today Michael Wilson, he did just that in undergrad. He was a law major and now he's an artist curator and professor but more importantly he's downright amazing. And right after the break, you're going to meet him keep him where you got it
Pierce Taylor:Welcome to the bail yourself out Happy Hour podcast, the bail acronym is used to outline the steps to implementing resilience in your life. B Believe you can win A accept change as part of the journey I Inventory strengths and L learn from what's happening. Together we'll unpack the bail framework in action. Now back to the show.
Kandice Whitaker:Hey friends, welcome to the bail yourself out. Happy Hour podcast. I am so excited. We have my friend for a million years. Mike I was trying to think about when we met definitely back to elementary schools and huffy bikes on Ferndale Boulevard. But now he is all grown up y'all. He's a professor. He's an art curator. He's an artist. I mean, he is degreed up. And we are so very grateful to have him as our guest today on the bail yourself out podcast. So welcome. Mike, what do you want the world to know about? Michael Wilson? Artist?
Michael Wilson:Yes, it's great to be on your show. This is really interesting to think about, you know, us running around like the kids in elementary school and Now we have bills and little kids to be responsible for.
Kandice Whitaker:I still think about how did I get to be the Auntie, how did I get to be the mommy like, we were just kids literally chase an ice cream shop. That part, that part? So what
Michael Wilson:I want people to know about me, I mean, really two things. I always tell people this when they asked me what do I What do I do when I'm interested in researching. And it says I like like people and I like art and doesn't have to be in any particular order. But those two? And yeah, I think in those two concepts, you know, I've internalized them and follow me in different aspects of my career. That's why you know, I, when I teach, those are the two things I'm teaching about. Right, you know, so you see that in my research, you know, when it comes to curating, you know, and working on artistic projects, those two things are weaving into balance each other. And then when I'm starting to make art and create some things, those two things are even out of each other. So you know, though, whenever people ask, I'm like this too, but people aren't.
Kandice Whitaker:I mean, what else is there man? So when you went to college, was that already decided for you? Or did you have a bit of a path to get there?
Michael Wilson:Yes and no, sometimes you don't realize what what you're interested in until it until you start to immerse yourself in it. When I was thinking about college, my sister she went to HBCU she went to Hampton University and she was in the marching band. So she would bring back videos and of her college experience and especially being in the band so I would watch these things and I will see like fraternity stepping and I would see what like a sports game look like and then she would bring home like mixtapes. So I will here who Brown and all these assaults on my kill. So this is what you're doing when you're in college. This just sounds like the best thing in the world. And by the time I came for me to start applying to college, I didn't I actually didn't apply to HB HBCU I went to the University of Albany but Albany was so diverse, you know, I stepped in knowing that I wanted to have those kinds of experiences but when it came to studying and what I was going to get a job doing I just picked being an attorney because like you know that you know you make money that's what you that's what you do. But as I started to immerse myself into college culture and you know, be joining organizations and being involved in student groups and then taking classes and learning about You know, even yourself. I don't remember taking an African American history class in central Islip, high school, I don't remember even talking about African American history at all, in any subject in centralized high school, you know, so
Kandice Whitaker:Oh, that's because we had very Republican right leaning teachers who made no effort to be neutral. Remember, in central islip
Michael Wilson:also not even having a, but not even having a vocabulary or wherewithal to understand that your experience in that, you know, I'm just sitting, he's just sitting there taking classes, you're not knowing what's going on, what's what's going on, without knowing why a teacher is talking to you this way versus another student. You just don't you just can't comprehend those things until you get older. And then you look back and you're like, oh, wait a minute. That was a thing. You know,
Kandice Whitaker:I mean, that was really important. Now, that's just saying that I'm thinking in my head, like when were the African American experiences in this mostly African American and Hispanic school, right. I know, there was African American Lit shout out to Christy knights and Yabo, the Captain Bill Schiavo, they were the only people that were African American. Anything that I recall, in central Islip. I think it was literature. It was literature. You know, I was a big English fan literature fan. So I was down for it. But you bring up a really, really interesting point. Wow. Yeah, we went to the school that was really predominantly people of color. And we didn't have any African American history. You're right.
Michael Wilson:About a culture or culture night to what was there ever a cultural event? What did what did homecoming comprise of? We had the high school was known for what was the call was the Jasper was the quiet What was the name of the post show? Choir?
Kandice Whitaker:I was in Jazz choir put some respect on that one.
Michael Wilson:I want you to think of the songs that you had to play in show choir. In what ways were any of those songs reflective of your culture, or the culture that was indicative of the demographics. By school?
Kandice Whitaker:We did sing peace in the valley, which is like an old school gospel song that Elvis appropriated. Nice. Yeah, I'm trying to think that's the first one that came to the top of my head, but everything else was like old standards, right. jazz standards, blue skies, the shadow of your smile. Yeah.
Michael Wilson:And, and that's not even standards, but standard eyes for you to think that that's normal, you know, then you go back and you're like, Wow, all these like, well, I don't know what the last time we've been subjected to the high school, but I went to visit the high school and its majority Latino. Now, you know, it was leaning that direction. You know, Bretton Woods was kind of spilling over into Ci when we were graduating social officials while to go back and see those things. So having those cultural experiences in college and taking the classes, I always knew I have artistic skill. And that is one thing that I will acknowledge when I was in high school is that they they did a very good job of honing in my artistic talent, right?
Kandice Whitaker:I was gonna say I always remember you being down with the art crew, and I was with the music crew.
Michael Wilson:But there was never a discussion on pursuing that in
Kandice Whitaker:college. Really, all the time you spent down there?
Michael Wilson:Well, I think of who are the who are the top. I'll say top but who are the people that I was most communication with? Who are artists and that was as a young man, Travis Johnson.
Kandice Whitaker:Shout out to Travis I remember Travis and his sister Katrice
Michael Wilson:Robert Wilson and Leanna Leanna Chapin those were Leanna chip Anna was a beast in elementary school, she
Kandice Whitaker:could draw for real
Michael Wilson:and I think that from what I know and I could be wrong, I think me and Leanne are the only ones that pursued art as leaving it on the ugly Liana she you know she's she's very much immersed in our instilled in in New York, she teaches she teaches painting. She's She's a painter, she has a nice newspaper spread she was involved in I think it was it's a be an outlet that started in New York morality. But other than that was never I was different courage to pursue it. And it might have been my maturity level of a point because I didn't think that that was something that you're supposed to pursue in college. So it wasn't until
Kandice Whitaker:I was I think that's a very western Indian thought of you Mike for real as a person who you know, has West Indian cultural background, you know, I don't think my Caribbean family would have been like go to school for music, even though music was my thing. You know, I think, you know, there's definitely a sense that you should do something more serious, you know, in that regard. So I couldn't imagine that coming from your family respectfully, just no one a culture so I think when I but but I will say this just knowing you and remembering all the arguments that we would have in social studies class, remember that? I remember arguments we would have in social studies class, I knew you always had an affinity for history. And I also knew that you always had a thing for art. So I was actually more surprised that you didn't actually do a deep dive, like into straight history, because you were always really passionate about that. But I can see how that correlates with art. Like, I totally get it. And it makes so much sense. So I definitely know that you're working with your passion.
Michael Wilson:Yeah. And be saying it was. That's why I say could be to, you know, allow maturity and self awareness, because I didn't, I didn't know where that was coming up going around that time. And like I said, I just thought being an attorney is what you do, because that you can make some you know, you make some money, then I took my first art class in college, because you have to take electives. So you know, us, Oh, I get to pick anything, oh, well, we just do some art. But when I realized that my my skill set in drawing was actually on par, if not better than the people in my class who are majors at art. I was like, Oh, wow, this is this should be a thing. And also, I found myself paying attention outside of class to art. So like, like putting in the hours of drawing. You know, it being nothing, but then taking like the government or politics class, and I'm like, it just it just didn't, it didn't resonate, you know, it didn't mess it
Kandice Whitaker:was your passion. It's your passion. Nobody has to force you to study a passion or to work within your art. Like I definitely get that. So you mentioned that you went to Albany State University, shout out to Albany State University in New York SUNY system. I did another whole podcast on PWI versus HBCU. And your alma mater got an honorable mention for being like the unofficial historically black college in New York, because I've more than once heard people say, Oh, go to Albany is just like going to historically black college. I visited campus a couple of times, but of course, I wasn't a student. Do you agree with that sentiment?
Michael Wilson:No. But I understand why somebody would say that.
Kandice Whitaker:No, Mike the way you said it when you said no way too quick. That was hilarious. Okay.
Michael Wilson:Because so I went to Albany, you know, the you will open right, not to be mistaken with you know, Albany State and Georgia, the H N HBCU. Right. I'm currently at Temple University, which has a dynamic very much so similar to Albany, if not more, of a diverse population, being in North Philadelphia, but you know, I taught at an HBCU for years and Dillard University. So I'm not a fan of people saying that some of these PWI guys are, you know, HBCU light or HBCU? Like no, they're not, you know, you an HBCU is a very dynamic experience that you will only get at an HBCU right. However, schools like the University of Albany schools, like Temple University, they have such a diverse population, that you can create a small ecosystem within the school where you can feel very culturally immersed and be comfortable all throughout your college career and feel like you've had a very beautiful culturally enriching experience because of that, right. And I think that that's what people remember when they go to school like an Albany or, or like a temple. But when you talk about what is an HBCU, you know, the culture of an HBCU. You know, there's no way you can ever compare that to that of a PWI. Because it is in the fiber of everything, it's in the food, because when I go to the cafeteria of an HBCU, you know, when I was at Dillard University, we was eating fried chicken and red beans and rice, and you know, and fried fish on Fridays, like like that, that's, you see that? It's not even a question of
Kandice Whitaker:what we do, baby. Yes. The culture,
Michael Wilson:the way, the way that I know that a homecoming is the way that student organizations are, you know, at a school like Albany and or like a temple, there's a there's a BSU, you know, you have a black student organization, you have an opening it was it was a super, but not only did you have a CEU. But you have like a pay Caribbean, you know, so you gravitated towards those organizations, Why were those organizations there? Because you were at a predominantly white institution, and you needed these cultural organizations. So after you got out of your class, when you were a minority, you were able to find the students who have similar cultural values, you know, to you, you don't need that an HBCU. Everybody was black. So the SG so it's different, but it was a different politic because Sure, you may not in the SGA act, let's say Dillard university, you may not be having discussions about like racial issues on campus. You know, you're talking about administrative issues on campus. So like it's very I'm very, very different. And it's important to make that distinction. You know, and I also think being at a HBCU, you get to realize how dynamic black diversity is. Because because that part, we are multi dimensional, same, you know, not all black people are the same. And I think, right, you really get to see those types of those types of differences come out. And I'd say if that doesn't happen, well, that didn't happen at Albany, because, you know, paying Caribbean and a soba those are two different types of parties even though you didn't have a nice reggae I was at a soup of a pain, okay, Caribbean party, he was straight. The Bible is different, you know,
Kandice Whitaker:do you know how many people's lives I ruin telling them what boom by by was actually about?
Michael Wilson:What was also beautiful about something like an organ, he was that the student organizations, there was so many different black organizations, you can go to the African Student Association, you can go to the Haitian Student Association, then you have a pin Caribbean and I even think they have one called Jameson now just for Jamaicans that Arab. So, you know, that the NAACP and a super solid thing he, you were able to experience that diversity on, you know, on a different level. But there's something when you were not a minority in an institution that isn't comparable. You know,
Kandice Whitaker:I totally get that. I want to back up for just a second. And I have one question related to your time at Albany. So when undergrad, you said that you took some art classes, and you were like, Yo, this is it? How long did it take you from that first art class to decide, okay, law in it? How long did it take you a semester to a year?
Michael Wilson:It was it was within a year, because around that same time I did that took my first African American Studies class, and then you get this like, moment, like, wow, I'm learning this about myself. Um, so let me take some more, you know, and I think what's interesting is, you know, you know, at the end of every semester, but you sell back your books, and you gotta get to get some of that money. You know, I wasn't giving back my books, because I wanted to, I wanted to keep up. And then I noticed that I was not only buying the books for my class, but I would kind of look at the other classes and maybe buy one or two of those books in an African American history. And then that's what I was like, you know, Mike, you may not know exactly what you want to do with this, but you'll but you'll figure it out later. And then I chat is for those within, within a year, after the after we my first year I changed by I changed my major and I double majored in fine art, visual art drawing, and an African American Studies. And I was like that, I'll figure it out, just figure it out. And we'll see. And we'll see what happens.
Kandice Whitaker:I love how when you talk about your journey, and your path from Okay, I'm going to school as pre law to I found something that I really like, I'm not really sure what this looks like, but you just started on that path. And so often, I think people get stuck because they know what they're doing isn't exactly for them. But because they don't have a predefined path for the future. They were afraid of just taking those couple of next steps in the direction that they want to go kind of building the plane. And that's the most toxic corporate phrase you'll ever hear in your whole entire life. So if you hear this run, but you're building the plane as you're flying it in your life, but that works well in your life. Don't ever go on a project though if people say that sidebar. But it is important to be able to assess what you'd like be able to go in that direction and say, You know what, this other is not working for me and figure it out along the way. But this conversation is really interesting. I'm going to put a paperclip in it right here. We're going to take a break and then when we come back we're going to talk to Mike about some articles that we talked about a little bit earlier. And then some other fun stuff, y'all we'll be back In our virtual Happy Hour community, the party never stops follow Kandice with a K Whitaker on social media, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube and Tiktok now back to the show Alright, y'all we are back with Michael Wilson the artist and told us an amazing story about his path in undergrad from transitioning from being a law major to an art major. What advice would you give to somebody who's in your position right now either they want to go back to school or and they don't know what path to take or they've never been to school and they're not sure what to pick what major to pick like what advice would you give to younger mike mike in circa 1999.
Michael Wilson:Try to do your best to pay attention to yourself and be present because what feels comfortable for you will show it will come out in some way in in the college environment you know take different types of classes gravitate towards Once you feel good at you, even if you're not good at it, you still may feel good at the process of doing it. Because what'll happen is you'll put extra effort into that thing. So if you may not be good at it, if you have the if you feel comfortable, and you're excited about it, you know, when you think about it all the time, you'll be willing to want to put more work into that thing. So you'll eventually get good at and once you you know, once once you catch that that fateful whatever that thing is, really have to create the discipline to try to be the best that you can at it, don't just don't just try to complete the assignment to say that it's completed, you really want to try to be the best because that skill set is going to come back at you years from years from your graduation, you know, and you're really going to need to develop that wherewithal to say, No, I don't want to put my best until it was that good not to pay attention to yourself, you will tell you what you want to do. But you really got to pay, you really got to pay attention, you know, to that to that aha moment, because I could have, I could have completely skipped not doing auto, you know, could easily have been very easy. So I definitely could have been a lawyer. And I could just find that the story I told you about working at the bank could have done that. No, I definitely could have done that. But I would have been drained emotionally and psychologically. And then physically, because my passion wasn't there. So staying up till three in the morning, when I wouldn't have felt good, or staying up till three in the morning. It's different when you're, when I'm drawing, it's completely it's completely different when I'm working on a drawing and three, but I've been I've definitely hit different if I was trying to write a brief at three in the morning. And then that's when it separates the people who are good for the people who were not or the people who are good for the people who are great for the people who are great, you know, they'll go all night without without sleep like nothing.
Kandice Whitaker:That's a great response, I want to call out a couple of things, right? Pay attention to the activities that give you energy, those are the ones that you like, but also pay attention to the ones that drain your energy. Those ones you should stay away from, in my experience coaching different people have folks say to me, I don't even know what I like, right? So I say to those folks, if you haven't hit on what you'd like keep trying different things for real. And there's nothing wrong with having different experiences. Because what you like is out there, I would just assume that you haven't seen it yet. You know, the job that I do today, the contracts that I do today, when I was picking I didn't even know they were an option for career. So just keep trying. And as Mike showed in his illustration earlier, you can definitely build that plane as you are trying to fly it that is a thing. But I want to downshift into the article that I sent you from CNN, there's an article out there came out a couple of months ago it says black students are less likely to attain college degrees because of discrimination and external responsibilities. And I read that title and I was like and and more news waters wet honestly, that was the first thing I thought I was like all y'all serious. I think personally, there's some danger in oversimplifying very complex issues. And I understand what they were trying to do here to get people to read it, but it's like an oversimplification. It's not just that it's like socio economic status. It is systemic racism. And you know, I talked about that already. But I want to hear what you think about it. Mike, what did you think?
Michael Wilson:Yeah, I think the thing complex is it may not even be the right word to explain things that people you know, people of color people of African descent, first generation college college students immigrants have to face when it comes to navigating college because college is it's not easy, you're by yourself, you know, and you got to do a lot of things by yourself. And if someone can't culturally understand you, or they can't understand you from a class standpoint, and you may not have a lot of resources in terms of people to go to one of the most difficult things for someone when it comes to college is filling out the FAFSA when you're in high school and I want you to think about the questions that that fast for ask you and your parents didn't go to college and
Kandice Whitaker:Annual income and
Michael Wilson:you know, I think about think about some people think about your parents think about your friend's parents, What do you mean well, my taxes push me away know how much money just that process can discourage some students from being able to have the opportunity to go to college because it becomes something like that, you know, so it's very it's very, very, very complex. And then what happens when you then what happens when you get there and you're by yourself you're the only person that looks like you were you one of the few people that looks like you in the classroom and now when you're in a classroom with these other 18 year olds at night, Mr. Parker's know where they're coming and going, but they also come from small towns in upstate New York, you know, and and they're looking at you the only thing that they that they were about people like you were from from TV, like those Still, it's very difficult to navigate that stuff with without support systems and resources. You know, my articles my spicy ear, my roommate called me my roommate was from his name is he was from Shadowgate. New York hell is that, you know, exactly. And he was like, wow, you know, I think he said something about being the first colored so that he knew that was
Kandice Whitaker:a nice colored Mike colored?. Colored
Michael Wilson:Wow. Wow, I think he said two colored people in my high school and suddenly my roommate turned out to be a great a great guy. But you know those will take claim. But what but it's Wow. Because that's the first time someone remember, we just had a conversation about what we learned and what we didn't learn in high school, you know, depending on your parents kind of conversation on race and culture and stuff like that may never happen. So I'm 18 1718 years old, those kids call me call it on like, what the fuck like, I don't even I don't even know how to respond. But you really have
Kandice Whitaker:the wayans brothers at that time, We're brothers, we're happy and we're singing and we're colored.
Michael Wilson:Yeah, but like, then we have But what does what does that mean from a comic sketch to then really processing someone being identified like that as like, well, he wasn't being offensive. He
Kandice Whitaker:was it's literally didn't know
Michael Wilson:that he didn't know or didn't know. But that turned out to be a positive experience. Because like we you know, we share things, you know, we shared I learned about stuff. And he learned about stuff. And he came from a genuine place. But that's not everybody's experience.
Kandice Whitaker:Right? You have to establish some sort of trust, right? Somebody that's a roommate, so
Michael Wilson:they've been trying to kick you out of school? Did you say no, my roommate stealing from me is this is that she's this or that? Or I wasn't already when I was an undergrad? So I heard those stories like white students and black students clashing. why don't why and stories because of those cultural differences. And you're living with that person. So what kind of stress is that?
Kandice Whitaker:No, for real. My first roommate I called her Satan, she was insane. She had a boyfriend that was my father's age crazy white girl was sitting in a room naked and write papers,
Michael Wilson:I navigate that response, responsibility. Totally different in undergra and is it's a lot to
Kandice Whitaker:live. Yeah, it's a whole thing. And then add on the fact that especially if you're first generation, you don't really have anybody you can talk to or get advice from, you know, for me my best resources, were the other black people in college, you know, those groups, those associations, you know, talking to the upperclassmen because my family, they didn't really have much context, although well meaning and supportive, right in their own way. You know, you can't talk about what you don't know, we have the shared background where you know, we have Caribbean parents, I have a Jamaican mother and American father, but my father's family has roots in this country back to 1867. But what they didn't really have no white friends. So think about us first generation going to college, not only did we have white friends growing up, and CI we all have white friends now we live in with white people, this was a whole different thing. And culturally, we knew we were different. But I can see how you know, that could very easily be added as a deterrent because you have no peace and the main place where you live like oh my gosh, aside from the fact that especially if you went to college in a place like I went to I went to purchase college, you know, you needed some sort of public transportation or something there wasn't that right, or you needed some money to get access to it. And a lot of people of color, not all but a lot. They just barely making it into college. So like extra money to be able to do things that wasn't a thing. So yeah, racism was a thing. But I personally wouldn't even say it was on the top 10 list of problems that happened in college, a lot of things.
Michael Wilson:It was there to a certain alter in varying degrees, but there was so many other factors. I think I saw some really interesting dynamics when I was teaching at Diller because I saw how some students were not being prepared to matriculate through college. Does that mean? So you have some of the schools that are like these black male achievement Academy High Schools, and what happens is that between 2009 and 2013, let's say you start hearing about these black male achievement academies, and they're boasting about their 100% graduation rate for their high schools, right. So, you know, they have these super high graduation rates for black men graduating high school. They also have like these super high college acceptance rates to oh, you know, 90% something 100 bucks or whatever of this class was admitted to college. So when I was teaching, there was some students were coming Going from those schools now you would automatically assume that the skill set was high, because they're coming from those schools, they have 100% 90, whatever percent college acceptance rate, graduation rate, but I'd be sitting with them and having some sex like one on one sessions talking to them, they couldn't do basic math, they couldn't do basic English. And then, but they had a high self esteem. And I realized, oh my god, what what's happening is that some of these schools were really boosting their confidence and not giving them basic skill sets. So they got into college, but they but they had no they had no skill sets to stay, and they were fitting, they were failing, and then give it a year or two, they were gone. They basic math, skills, basic skills, but have all the confidence of work, I can do it, I can achieve that I cannot because that's what was being you know, you know, built into them very, very, very confident students when I mean basic skills, and didn't even understand it and have the basic skills. So you're trying to help them but they're just saying they're terrible, and everything with their subjects. And it's like, Yo, they set you up to get into college. Again, no skill sets to actually stay.
Kandice Whitaker:While I didn't expect you to say that when I asked you that question. So Wow. Is all I'll say, what are that, but let's put a paperclip in this. I'm gonna take another quick break here. Keep it where you got it. So tell me, are you enjoying the show? gone ahead and rate us five stars and leave a comment. Now back to the show? All right. Hey, y'all. This is Kandice with the K. I'm hanging out with my co host today, Michael Wilson, we talked about a lot picking the right major, but I want to actually dive into something else that I saw. I was doing research for this episode about black people in college. And I came across this and thought it was super interesting. Georgetown University, the Center on Education and Workforce, they have a list of the majors that black people choose in college, and basically their earnings compared to white people. And what that looks like in a graphic form. Well, first of all, the first thing that they said was, overall, the majors that black people pick, they're the ones that earned the least money, rather. And when I thought about it, I was like, You know what, that actually makes sense, because I can see people picking majors for positions or jobs or companies that they have been exposed to. And the truth of the matter is, you know, when you grow up in a certain socioeconomic status, and this is from a person who grew up in a certain socio economic status, what do you see, you see police officers, you see teachers, you see social workers, you see people who are doctors, but that's somewhat unattainable. You see pastors, right. And when you look at the love the majors that were selected, it is very aligned with what you'll see in the community. So that totally makes sense. The lowest earning majors, you know, they're things like early childhood education, like Yeah, FYI, early childhood education, although it is very wonderful. If you love babies, it's great. There is no money there. Anything related to arts as a music major, I am telling you, you know, unless you're going to be like Mike commissioned your own artwork or something like that, write your own opera, not a whole lot of money, their social work, being a pastor, those kinds of things. There's not a whole lot of money in any of those majors. But here's where the money's at pharmacy, you know, engineering pretty much all kinds of engineering, chemical engineering, they do that in food, you know, not just chemical chemicals. Also electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, computer engineering, do some work in AI, that's computer engineering, civil engineering, you know, that's the bridges and whatnot of course nursing everybody knows nursing and then of course general engineering and then computer science so those are all the top earning majors all the sciences trying to get you into STEM pretty much all the arts at the bottom all the stem is the top so what say you about that Mike? I mean, how can we as a community help people who have been exposed to the bottom of it be more inspired to go somewhere to the middle or to the top?
Michael Wilson:I mean, it's it's also not just exposed it's it's also what happens when you get into school and your mentorship and your and your was what does it mean to be mentored while you're in school? What does it mean to be advised while you're in school and how how professors are guiding you into what that's also plays a big deal. You know, you know how many being at Dillard. It's an HBCU. You can and Diller produces is the programming property of maybe the highest percentage of black nurses out of any college or university You know, and definitely added on to HBCUs. One thing I was always asking myself is what is the difference between a student saying that they they want to do nursing versus they want to do pre med? And why and why don't why did they choose? And was one in conversations with some people? Not all, because you don't want to stereotype me, it's almost like I never thought that as a reality, I just thought that was nursing was the best, you know, skill set, but they have the skill set to do you know, to
Kandice Whitaker:Right, I mean, it's definitely overlap. Yeah,
Michael Wilson:it's stuff like that. Um, and I do think that advising and mentorship and undergrad is also important and who gets them who does it. Even these tech jobs, I often hear people who are doing like the coding and stuff they'll be guided to do, there's a certain level, that's a lower level, even within that, and they're and they're guided, but now, you know, within the you know, automation in Al and stuff, a lot of those jobs would be the first ones that are established. So it's almost like the those entry level positions on the new like manual labor,
Kandice Whitaker:and they'll be the brain that part. I think
Michael Wilson:mentorship and advising is very, very important when it comes to career choice, because some people you know, we pride people, overall statistically have support for their for their people. They're statistically the ones who will donate out of their paycheck no matter how much they're making, donate more to charities and churches, statistics bear for that. So
Kandice Whitaker:we want to help. We are hopeful that absolutely, yeah, you're wanting to do social work and seed funds, do those things.
Michael Wilson:But what does it mean to kind of guide someone to be able to maximize monetizing, and what does it mean to talk about financial literacy and things like that? You know, it's there's, it's growing. But yeah, I think it was a clear it's a clear gap. And then you realize we get a certain age and I start playing catch up
Kandice Whitaker:just thinking aloud here. How can we, as a community bridge the gap? How can we be helpful aside from forums like this, where we're talking about it, look for mentors, seek out those people who can help you and they don't necessarily have to look like you. I have trusted advisors and mentors who I have been tremendously blessed along my pathway, and they don't all look like me, I think it's okay to
Michael Wilson:you have to be intentional to get involved and get and get back to younger to younger people, you got to be really intentional do that. Because you can be, you can be really siloed into into either staying with your peers or trying to excel, I think it's important that you get back in went into find mentees and you go back to your your undergrad and you go back to your high school or you find a local one and share your experience. And maybe you kind of identify somebody who was special, you know, quote unquote, special and give them some advice to say, Oh, you can do this. It's important for people to be able to get those types of conversations. And you have to be willing not to have that there's like that proverb that says if you want to go fast go by yourself, but if I'm by yourself going to go far go together, like you have to kind of initiative to say I have a skill set, I'm gonna have to put some people on have some conversations with, with, with folks, how many mentors? Do you have? You know, the only one I have, but that is how many mentees? Do you have? Right, right.
Kandice Whitaker:To be effective? You need one, you know, I mean, honestly, my mentors have evolved over time, I definitely think depending on what you're doing personally, you can outgrow a mentor. And that's okay. Right, they can still be a great friend, they can still be part of your village, they can still speak well of you. So there's that. But then also, really, as you said earlier, I love that being intentional with whom you are seeking advice and make sure that they have realized some success in the area that you aspire to not just talk about it, not just know about it, they got receipts, that's important.
Michael Wilson:So I don't think it's about outgrowing a mental either, I think like you, it's identifying the skill set when I was that's what I that's what I've done is one student and it was Rachel Williams, she was special, you know, there was a lot of special students. And when I was doing very special students, and I knew I'm like you are going to do something in the world, I don't know what it is, you know, ratio was one of those students like you, you are going to be special. So I knew that I can I had this amount to be able to give to help that process as much as I could. And then the rest it would be kind of witnessing that unfold, because I was like I was like no racial, not racial, smarter, racial smarter than me, she's going to be able to do these things. You can pitch like, I know that she's going to go, so I have this, I'm going to make sure that I that I give it and then you let go and watch it,
Kandice Whitaker:you know, watching her like to do what to do.
Michael Wilson:And that's what PhD program, you know, if I knew that there was certain there were certain things that she was doing and when she was thinking I was I was unable to give advice for that because but it was I realized that my place was to be a support system. You know,
Kandice Whitaker:there's even wisdom in that right as a person Sid, who's a mentor, being able to step back and say, You know what, this is out of my wheelhouse. There's wisdom in that because there are plenty of people who will speak on what they don't know about, you know, that
Michael Wilson:is, let's say, you know, you have to find different, you know, the different mentors sort of different. I guess that is one thing to realize you got to you've got to have a couple that do different things, you know, and we're able to help you spiritually, you know, financially professionally and all that all that other stuff.
Kandice Whitaker:Oh, my goodness. So this is a great place to make a wrap. This has been a wonderful episode. Thank you so much, Mike Wilson, Professor, artist, where can we meet up with you on social media? Tell people where they can hit you up, man?
Michael Wilson:Um, I have an Instagram It's Michael K. Wilson art Michael. So when people asked how to spell my name, I've never met someone's name Michael spelled anything other than mi ch AE l but whatever is Michael K. Wilson. But also my website is Michael Wilson artists.com. So I have everything is on there. You can see the art that I make curatorial projects and research projects and abuse publications that I had, you can navigate the websites.
Kandice Whitaker:Thank you so much for your time. I definitely enjoyed this conversation. Thank you for stopping by the happy hour lounge. And as always, y'all I love y'all for listening we out. Wasn't that a great interview, hold up before you grab your hat and head out. Make your way to facebook.com and join the Kandice with a K Whitaker's Facebook group. That's where you can find our free Happy Hour community, luxuriating and chatting. Thank you for listening. And if you enjoyed the show, please leave a review. That's how we keep the lights on. If you're on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, feel free to shoot me a message and say Hey, girl, hey, I'm Kandice with the K Whitaker and I would love to hear from you. And with that, I love you. And I mean, you know why? Because there are people in the world who hate for no reason I choose to love for no reason. I believe as the great Martin Luther King Jr. said pain is too great a burden to bear and I choose to love peace y'all be great.
