BAIL Yourself Out

Thriving Together Personal and Professional Growth

• Kandice Whitaker • Season 3 • Episode 3

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The conversation revolved around personal and career growth, inventorying strengths, accepting change, and optimizing space in corporate real estate. Speakers shared their experiences and perspectives on navigating office politics, personalities, and diversity in the workplace. They emphasized the importance of diversity and inclusion, empowering women, and breaking the stigma of vulnerability. The conversation highlighted the need for supportive networks, calculated risks, and embracing diversity to achieve greater success.

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Welcome to the bail yourself out Appy Hour Podcast, where each week we'll help you navigate the corporate jungle. Here's your host, Kandice Whitaker is happy hour. Welcome to the bail yourself out Happy Hour pod friends. Here we focus on personal growth, career growth and entrepreneurship. Our crew is dedicated to providing you with the tools and insights necessary to turn your dreams into reality and get your money up. In each episode, we'll explore strategies rooted in the bail method of resilience, guiding you to conquer challenges and thrive and earthing. You do. I'm your host, Kandice Whitaker. And at the age of 21, I was a determined young mother who wanted to ensure my best possible life and defy the odds. So I took steps towards achieving the life I desire. I got my master's degree, then I was a sought after consultant, which led me to starting my own company, I have a passion for guiding people into the life they envision through resilience using the bail yourself out approach. So I'm happy you're here. Kick off your shoes and relax your feet. Fill up your favorite drink because the bail yourself out Happy Hour podcast is about to start. Now you're listening to Kansas with a cake and together we'll learn how to bail yourself out be believed that you can a accept change as a natural part of any process. I inventory your strengths and the strengths available to you and your network. Now learn from your experience and the experience of others. Hey there Hey, happy hour fam. This is your girl Candice with a Kay I'm so glad you took the time to hang out with us today. I have in the happy hour lounge, my girl Michelle Mimi, Jack. I am so excited that she is here to talk about a whole bunch of different stuff. So maybe what do you want the world to know about you there? Oh, thank you. Well, Kara, thank you so much for having me on the show. It's so refreshing. And it feels so good, you know, to be able to go and visit other people's shows and whatnot. So what I would love the world to know about myself Mimi Jax is, you know, I'm just, you know, a free spirit out here trying to have a good time trying to uplift other women as well encourage people to take advantage of these opportunities that we have around us, whether it's in tech, whether it's you know, entrepreneurship, whether it's mentoring or something like that, but maybe Jax is, you know, just a fun loving go like it can go. You are so funny. And let me just tell you, I totally vibed when we first met, because I definitely am a free spirit. You know, and I think Free Spirits just kind of attract each other. So we met everybody who's listening at Black is tech. So that is one of the larger tech conferences for black people in the US this year. 2024. We have it coming up in August, August. Yes, August it's going to be in Houston, Texas. I believe that dates are oh, let me not even get to Lyon, because I thought I had it memorized. But I don't. But it's going to be I think in the second or third week of August over up in Houston. That's going to be exciting, really looking forward to that. So maybe, you know, the first thing that I did when I invited you to be a guest on the pod is I Googled you, of course. Have you Googled maybe Jack's? Because it's 10,001 Michel Jackson's? Yes, of course. And first thing I wanted to say to anybody like me, who may Google you, right, I read your bio. Yeah, girl, I already liked you. But then when I read your bio, it's like, yes, all of this honey. Your bio was talking about you in space planning. I was like, Okay, what is that? That? I think I know what that is. But I don't write we talk business and careers. I know. I'm not the only one who doesn't know that. That's right. Yeah. Don't worry, everybody. I'm not in space. I'm not going out of space. Okay. So space plan is like occupancy planning. So for corporate real estate, you know, where you have architects and the engineers that are designing the space building the space, the space planners, we really are there to optimize the space. So whether it's an existing building with four floors and 300 people, or if it's a 40 storey building, and you've got at least six to 7000 people in the building, we're there to help manage the space. So we're kind of like you know that for person, that liaison that is the first person you see when people, you know, where's my new hire gonna sit, you know, my department is doubling his size, I need more space? Or maybe you know, we're working with corporate real estate and they're like, we're going to exit this building because nobody's coming into the office. So tell us, how much space do we need, you know, we're forecasting, you know, the usage and the utilization of the space, you know, so we kind of, you know, help people get the most bang for their buck out of the space that you're in, whether it's an office building, or a manufacturing or a lab or something like that. We were kind of like the friendly people to help you use your space. Of that. I didn't even know that was a job. Something today, but I could see how useful it would be. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I used to tell people, you know, my job was, you know, to tell people No, because before the pandemic, everyone was like, oh, I want to office or I want to be on this side of the building, or I'd like to build a new storage room. And I'd be like, no, because that is not what the corporation is looking to do. You know, everyone has their own little personal wish list. And we're like, No, you're not going to be able to do that. I'm sorry. No, you can't. No, we can't. No, we cannot have a big unicorn plushie in the middle of the floor, so your team can hold hands and sing Kumbaya? Yeah. Yeah. Unless you're at one of those more, you know, tech friendly companies, but you can't do that in a bank. No, we need to have a little more, you know, you know, regimen or doctor's office. Right? Exactly. Right. Yeah. And you know, what, you I think you're the perfect person to tell people No, because you just have such a bright, cheery personality, I can see you being like, No, I don't feel bad, right? I tell you no, with a smile. I'd like like, Oh, that's a great idea. But no, we can't do that. No, sorry. That's against policy. And I could check on it. But I could tell you, it's gonna be a no. I've been an occupancy planning for over 20 years. And the last few years, I've been doing more of working with technology and occupancy planning and training the planners on what to do and how to do it. How did you get to occupancy planning? Because is this something you'd like went to school for? Or is it something you learned on the job? How did that work? Yeah, yeah, I did actually go to school for it. And a lot of people in the industry, I'd say, are maybe architects or project managers. So other people, they come into it a different way. I started off in school for architecture. And then I was like, yeah, no, this is not going to be for me. Drawing the floor plans, you know, and just looking at the career path of like, you know, how many years you're, you know, understudy or in architecture before you get your license. And then I was like, Well, what am I going to do after that? I was like, I'd much rather work with the people in the building and helping them figure out how to use the space. So that's what I kind of jumped into. And I've been doing it ever since I've done it for biotech companies. I've done it for finance companies for technology companies. Oh, yeah. So now I'm in consulting. And, you know, we do it for everybody. That's dope. So you were an architecture major? Did you find out about the space planning before you graduated? Or was that as you were looking for jobs? No, yeah. before I graduated, I think after two years of architecture, I was like, next what, like, what else is my next plan? And then I saw interior design, and I saw occupancy planning. And I said, Well, let me go into occupancy planning, because it's still, it's kind of like a jack of all trades, you know, we studied, you know, some construction, we did some, you know, like color light design stuff. And, and of course, we still had to deal with, you know, AutoCAD and drawing plans and how to read the plans and everything like that. So I was like, Yeah, I'm like occupancy planning out at that. So that's where I'm going with this. That's going to be my path. Yeah. That is, though, I love that. And I love how your story illustrates that you started in one place. And you were able to make a transition once you realize that wasn't for you person. Yeah, like one of the things that we talk about on the pot all the time, is that it is okay to not 100% Know what you want to do, whether it be career or in your business, but you got to start some way. Right. And then we have a whole episode I want to say a season one, but it was it was Michael Wilson and a colleague of mine he was talking about his journey which was very similar. And you know, in corporate we call that building the plane while flying it which is is very toxic if you hear that in a corporate scenario, but if you're trying to figure out what you want it, yeah, sometimes you got to make it do what to do. And I love, like the resilience in being able to look around and say, this ain't it? Right? Yeah. And a lot of students these days, I tell them the same thing, because and that's one thing I loved about my school is that it was it was a technology school. So half the time when people don't know what I do. I'm like, Yeah, I'm an engineer. Like, I just keep it easy for you, I went to an engineering school surrounded by engineers. I'm an engineer. But definitely one of those soft ones cuz I wasn't into all that deep, deep technology. But we had you know, coops. So that was a great way to get an internship or something and figure out what you did not like, because that was just as important as knowing what you did want to go into. So test it out, change your mind, pivot, do something different. But yeah, you're not stuck into one thing for the rest of your life. Tell us about the coop? What is that? Exactly? Yeah, so it's almost like, for a whole semester, you're going to be working with another company. So we had our Career Center. You know, they gave us opportunities to interview with different companies. And so I remember, I think one of my first I was working with a company for like, the whole semester. And it was a black owned project management company. And I was like, Okay, let's see what they're doing here. And then I'm like, doing housing inspections, and doing floor plans and stuff. And I was like, Oh, this is a lot of work. I don't want to do this either. You know, I was fine with, you know, inspections, and meeting people and stuff. But then I'm like, oh, but I'm going into this house. And I'm like, Okay, so these things need fixed, maybe they would get fixed. And maybe they wouldn't get fixed. I'm like, that doesn't seem right to me, you know, but two semesters of, you know, classes, and then one semester, you do your co op, you're working with a company, we got paid. So that was always good. I tell people, I'm like, I didn't really work until I went to college, you know, and that's a blessing in itself. Because sometimes you work in as soon as you want your first pair of sneakers or something, you know, but yeah, so the co op opportunity was really, really a good way to get into corporate and or even the trades, because, you know, it was an engineering school. So a lot of people went, you know, they had different trades that they would go into with construction or whatnot. So that kind of get our feet wet and what it was like working in these fields, that's dope, it kind of sounds like a paid internship that was arranged through the school type situation. I definitely encourage people to do those types of things. My daughter, when she went to college, initially, she was very interested in accounting, and she definitely has that accounting demeanor. But through internships and externships. She was like, I don't like accounting. Yeah. But you know what, that's okay. That is totally okay. It's better to find it out. While it's a little bit easier to make a pivot, right? Yeah. While you're either in school, you can maybe take some different classes, but like, Okay, let me see, what else can I What else can I learn about here and, and put that on my degree on my resume as I'm looking for something? Exactly. And you know, what, to our listeners who are listening, here's a little bit of free coaching, I'll keep you to some game. And me me can cosign on this. Don't really matter what your degree is in that nobody told you. Me, unless you go into like law school or medical school where they have very specific requirements, and even then you can just go take the classes to supplement what you didn't take your child just go on to get your paper and graduate. Mm hmm. Very true. I mean, I can tell you like even when we were a graduate, and I was looking, I'm like, What are these architects doing over here? Y'all got your own path? Why are you looking at these jobs? You know, it's really your skill set and what you're applying to this role you know, so and also don't don't hesitate to apply to jobs that are you think are above your, your level here because the people who they're looking for they don't even know who they are. They don't even know who they're looking for to hire to fill that role for like a lot of jobs, you know, so just fake it till you make it apart. You know, I always say 75% If you have 75% of the skills they're asking for on the resume, throw your hat in the ring. Yes. Yeah, the worst they can say is no. Right? Exactly. You still not out nothing. I love this conversation. I'm gonna put paperclip in it right here and take a short break. We'll be back. Get the full bail yourself out. Happy Hour lounge community. Bye It's time you got community news. And when you sign up, you get a free download of your choice. And you will be entered to win limited areas, our podcast feature now monthly draw. Sign up today. About pod.com. We'll see you there. So tell me, are you enjoying the show? gone ahead and rate us five stars and leave a comment. Now back to the show. Hey there friends welcome back to the bill yourself out Happy Hour lounge, we are chillin with my girl, Mimi Jax. And she's talking about her journey of being a space planner, started out as an engineer, and then ended up in space planning. I learned something about you today. I didn't even know what a space planner was. Well, yeah, I've seen your work. Yeah. And you know, as we were mentioning, before the break, these skills are transferable. So I'm a planner through and through. So I love the projects and project management that has a beginning and an end that little up and down. Whether it's any event that I'm planning, whether it's you know, office space, I'm planning, whether it's, you know, could be a birthday party or a calendar or something that I'm planning, I'm like, Okay, let's get the details together and map it out. I love that this is a separate and aside, like I'm just curious as a person who was a space planner, right. But you're also a person who has worked. And clearly you're a person who has worked in corporate and you have a really extensive background. How do you feel about all of these companies going to like the open concept workspaces? What's your personal opinion about that? I have mine. I'm just curious to see how you feel about it. Let's see, which hat do I put on for this? Because as the employee, I think I've become accustomed to the open space concept of, you know, perhaps not even having a seat assigned to myself, you know, because I remember when we first started transitioning to that everyone was like, Well, where am I gonna put my shoes? Where am I gonna put the picture on my family? And I'm like, Well, I've always pretty much been very minimal at work, you know, ready to pick up and go at any moment. I don't have a lot of shoes. I don't have a lot of pictures. I don't have my personal life displayed on my desk. So I'm like, that's fine. I can sit here today. And I can sit over there tomorrow. That's no girl. You. We all do. Right? Exactly. You barely even know what I did for the weekend. So why do you need to do business and my cousin in Vegas or something like that? Right. But you know, and from the corporate side, I mean, it helps to save because there's a lot of wasted space, you know, you could give everybody a 400 square foot office, and they don't even come to the office, or they just are using their desk. And then they're in a conference room for meetings for the rest of the day. And it's like, okay, you're taking up a lot of real estate and the operations of running a building, that's one of your biggest expenses. So I can see where companies are trying to minimize the amount of individual space that they give people for a desk, and maybe go for a conference room, or maybe go for you know, like a huddle room where you have a couch and you can you could go in there and sit and work and be comfy instead of, you know, having your little three by six foot desk and good in Gone with the workstations and the panels and the dividers and all that stuff. You know, it's extra eye strain. That's what I call it. Yeah, yeah. So here's the problem for me. First of all, I'm an introvert. Right? So I just don't want to be in the mix of people. I know. I don't sound like one. But it takes a lot of energy from me. Right? What like, if I worked with you, or there'd been a couple of people I've worked with? Who if they came to my desk, now I'm talking for two hours, get anything done? Girl, the one if we get me in a conversation, and especially if you talk about something I'm interested in, please, I don't worry about it when I need to focus. So there's that. I don't mind the open seating assignment per se because like you I don't have a lot of stuff in office. I don't care. I'm a consultant, like I'd be here today, going tomorrow, all of that stuff. But I have a story. So let me tell you, I was working at a top four consulting company. open seating is that how do you say open so yeah. So okay, I'm there. You know, usually when you set up, you pull up, you put your stuff out for the day. That's your seat, right? Sitting there. So I'm there Now mind you, they have multiple floors on a building in Manhattan, right so I had to go up more trouble for us even find the daggone seat. I'm in a seat. I literally go to a meeting and I come back and somebody's like, all sitting in my seat, but I left my jacket there. So I'm like, Okay, your ass essence is on my seat. Like, what are you doing? You're asking? my dry cleaning? Yes. Oh, bro, like, are you serious? I had to be really cool about like, you saw a whole jacket sitting here? Yes. All my stuff sitting here. Why are you playing? That? Like overseeding? Because now now we have to be a bit of understanding on the floor. That's about to be a misunderstanding. Oh, my goodness, I yeah, we've got tons of stories of even people with assigned seating, but they just feel like, well, I want to sit here. So this is where I'm going to sit, regardless of who was already sitting there. I've had people pick up whole setups and move someone to the side so that they can sit where they wanted to. And I was like, No, this is not going to work. This is white. Oh, usually always. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Because if it was any one of us, we know we're in the right. But we're also going to be like, ooh, somebody's gonna have to handle this. Because if I handle this, it's gonna be a problem. Let me just table over here. Right? Let me go sit at his focus booth with a day it just like whoosah I get my work done. And somebody's gonna have to handle that. Imagine a black employee moving somebody's stuff. Oh, listen, they just got to show what what HR, your boxes. You know, they have the Battle of the admins to you know, because a lot of this systems, they'll manage the space for the team. And they may be doing some double booking or whatnot, you know, so I'm like, I'm here to help you as much as I can. But at the end of the day, it's not that serious. Like, you come to work, you do a job like, you don't need, you know, two seats. Oh, my goodness, it ain't it. For me. I understand from a corporate perspective how it could be better. How I would manage it is I would just go in those little working huddle call rooms and that was quasi office. That's it, because I can't there's too much noise is I don't care what you watching on TV. I don't want to chit chat about whatever pod you're listening to. Exactly. I really don't like talking to people that much. Like when I go to the office, they don't even know I'm there. And I remember when we first started going back, because I've been working from home for years now. Right? So I remember going back to the office, I'm like, why is it so loud? I hear why all these people talk. I'm like, let me get my headphones or something and be like, Oh, no, I can't talk like, Yeah, I'm gonna call. I'm not. Ah, oh, my goodness, I totally, totally understand that. I love the way this conversation is going. So like we talked a little bit in the last break about your professional journey. Right? So you talked about how you started out as one major engineering and then you ended up in the world of space planning? Yeah. Were you one of the folks who just like got one job and you just stayed with them for a while? Or did you move around? How did that work out for you? When I first started off, out of college, I started with a little startup company. And you know, it was a little architecture company, they had their own software division, you know, where they had created a software system for space planning. So it was a little spin off. So I was there for maybe like two years until they were going to relocate from the city out to the suburbs. And I was like, Oh, I'm a single mom, I don't have a car. I'm not going out there. So this is what I started looking for another job. And that second job started off, you know, kind of doing setting up people on you know, at the time, we call them calf home systems where we had these computer, you know, programs that would help keep track of how many people in each department, what floor are they on all that good stuff. So I was set up, you know, companies on the systems and so the company I went to, I was there dedicated CAFO you know, specialists. So we were getting all their buildings into the floor plans and making sure we had, you know, accurate you know, who sits here who sits there, how many spaces everybody has forecasting. Ooh, we're growing so fast. We're running out of space. So I was there for like 40 to yours, and wow. Yeah, yeah. So, and they were awesome. You know, I would say every year or every two years, I'd be getting a promotion, you know. So went from setting up the software system for occupancy planning to becoming, you know, like a junior planner, senior planner, you know, just going up the ladder for occupancy planning. And I went back to school during this time for my MBA. And so I had gone to undergrad at all, not all male school, but you know, as an engineering school, so it was mostly men. And then for my MBA, I went to a woman's School, where it was all women, you know, doing our MBA, or, you know, different masters in different schools and everything like that. So by the time I finished my MBA, I kind of started seeing, okay, this company was acquired, were merging, not much mobility for me to go upwards. And they weren't like, hey, congrats on your NBA, here's a big raise. Natalie did not so I was like, Okay, I'm gonna have to go somewhere else to get that money, right. So I ended up from there. That's when I went still doing occupancy planning, I just went to another company. And I was their dedicated, you know, occupancy planner, with a finance organization. And that's what took me from Boston to New York, because I was working on a project going back and forth on Amtrak, you know, building out new space here in New York. And then when it was finished, my boss was like, oh, you know, we're gonna need a planner for that location for that region for that Mid Atlantic region, New York, Pennsylvania, you know, DC, and I was like, Yeah, sure, I'll do it. So, you know, that's how I ended up coming to New York, still doing occupancy planning here. And eight years later, different company now I'm with, you know, a consulting company where we do everything, you know, occupancy planning, you know, project management, facilities, change management, which is another cool thing that I could probably get into, but where, you know, people, they don't really like change, so you kind of have to train them and teach them and get them to change that culture of welcoming. That's my world. i Yeah, well, that's my world. All right. So you know how people are, if you think your, you know, grandma's stuck in her ways, like, listen, nothing is more stuck in their ways as engineers or employees who are sitting in a space who don't want to move, don't understand why they have to move, you know, trying to change them to only use one file cabinet instead of 28. You know, it's a whole process. It's a mind shift. Yeah. And it's like, you have to sell people the chair that yours that's in your house, it's not here. Exactly. Hello. Is that your house today? Here? Okay. Right. Yes. Oh, my gosh. But you know, what I what I really loved about hearing your story? Is you talking about you being with one company for a while and getting raises and promotions and bettering yourself during that time. Did you have any mentors or advocates that you relied on? Yeah, yeah, I'd say, I mean, I've always kind of been involved with the black people, right. So whether it was Nesby, or, you know, the black MBA, or, you know, black as tech, you know, I've always kind of been involved with, maybe there was a professional organization at work, you know, so I think during that time, it was Nesby. So the National Society of Black Engineers, it's mostly students and undergrad, but they do have a professional division to it. So, you know, I had graduated, I'm working as a professional. So there were mentors there that kind of guided me all my professional journey, other black engineers that have already done 30 years in their career and could advise on how to deal with people or situations at work, right. And then I also had a very strong advocate and supporter, he was an older white man, but he had my back, you know, on many occasions, and was there to advocate for me, and, you know, did my recommendation to get into the MBA program, when some crazy white lady was coming after me saying I'm aggressive and threatening little me back? Up, right. Exactly. You know, and I know that child. I'm sorry, it is my job to tell you know, though, okay, so I'm looking out for the interests of the company. And, you know, we have processes and procedures, so no, you're not getting everything you want. But yeah, he definitely was understanding and encouraging of me furthering my career and education and you know, making sure I was You know, safe at work that is so important. And, you know, for everybody who's listening, I want you to understand that Mimi can do these great things because she had her network and leaned on her network. That's why it's so important for all of us to have those people who are in our ear telling us what to do helping us navigate this craziness. Because so many of us are also first generation. So you know, asking your family then it because they probably don't know. They love you, though. Right? Right, you can. She probably thinks I'm an architect. So I gave up on that dream years ago. I'm pretty sure my grandfather thinks I'm a drug dealer. Like I've explained to him so many times what I do, and I'm just like, I don't work for El Chapo at this point. And because I can work remotely, and I love to travel, I take advantage of that, you know, some work from anywhere. So they really are like, are you ever at work? Like, how are you always traveling? How are you always going somewhere? I'm like, I'm working, you know, between these hours in this other location. And then I'll go out afterwards when I'm, you know, I love that. Because ultimately, the way you get your money, how you get your provision is to support your life. Right? I said, I'm Christian, Jesus came so that I might have life. And I have a life, which doesn't include me sitting up here, which all all today I go on time, right. But living to work. I'm working. So I get that part. That part. We have put in half holy, we both. I love how your story is what Renda Carter, I'm going to quote her right now. She said last season, get that head, make that bread and leave. Because when you realize that after you got your MBA, like you were at the end of the road, you bounced, right. You know, many people get stuck there. Exactly. They get comfortable, they want to stay there 2030 years, and I was like, we were talking about what what do you get after 10 years? I'm like, okay, so I did get some earrings. I got a lot of Tiffany's like gift earrings and like, what else did I get for being there for 510 15 years? You know, so, yeah, you got to take that chance on yourself and believe in yourself that there is greater out there. And what's the worst that'll happen? You know, I can leave this comfy job, go to another job if I don't like it. You know, so, I love this conversation. We're gonna put paperclip in here, we're gonna take a real quick break. And we'll be back. We'll be having more bike sales. Please, please continue to rock with friends, sister, cousin, colleague, auntie and his widow. bail yourself out and don't think you have something to be bailed out of. After you listen, you will realize that you do. Now back to the show. Okay, Happy Hour fam. We are back with my girl, Mimi Jax. And we have had a wonderful conversation talking about her transition to becoming who she is. And one of the things that you said, when you introduced yourself, Mimi, as you talked about empowering women, that is one of your goals. You know, truly, we talk much junk and we laugh. But the goal of what we do here is to empower, we want people to understand that they can live the lives that they want to because there's no reason you shouldn't. So what makes that important for you and kind of what puts you on the journey to wanting to empower women specifically. Sometimes it can be difficult to talk about, but you know, I think part of my desire for empowering women is to talk about, you know, being a survivor of like, you know, sexual assault, you know, so it's kind of, you know, growing up and being told to listen to grownups, you know, do what you're told, you know, this, this and that. And then to find yourself in a situation where, you know, the power is taken away from you, you know, and so I feel that any young woman, any young girl, any, you know, women period, and I generally focus on black women, particularly, is to recognize our strength and our voice and to be able to speak up and out, whether it's about things that have happened to us or things that we want to change or control. So I became a mother. I was 18 years old, I became a mother and my senior year of high school, and as a product of rape. And so I've always from there, you know, stayed home for the summer had my child went back to college in that fall. So it's not like a typical story that you know, My teenage mom in college and everything you still have other things that you're working on is struggling with. And, and I would see other, you know, women and girls around me and we just, you know, got to talk in and you know, and helping us supporting each other. So, it's always been on my heart to make sure that other women have someone to talk to, and knew that they were worth pursuing the desires of their heart. So trying to empower women and just, you know, if there's any way that I can help them or point them in another direction, or teach them how to network or interview or, you know, to just help their station in life, you know, that's kind of been my calling to try to help advance, you know, women of color in that way. Thank you for your openness and sharing your story with the audience, I had no idea what you were gonna say. And I'm sorry, you had to experience that I am grateful that you were able to empower yourself and transition from pain to power. A lot of people can't do that. And that speaks to your resilience. And I don't want to use the word strength, because a lot about black women are so strong. And I don't want to be strong anymore. Strongest ghetto, right? Yeah, I want to be soft, I want to be nice, right? allow myself to be vulnerable, because that's strong, that's ghetto. Right? It's not because we want to be it's because we've had to be, you know, so it's not a badge that I want to where continuously, I want to be able to lay that burden down. And, you know, have a partner, you know, we're working together, you know, or have that village of support, where I don't have to, like, have that still face and constantly be on guard and, you know, be that strong woman that people are looking to all the time. That part, you know, I was recently telling someone about myself, I was raised by dignified black people. So my face does not give an indication of how I feel. I'm like, I really care. It's just that you know, when you're raised by dignified black folks as I was and you laugh so I can tell you are familiar literally, you don't emote that much. Yeah, I made you know I have a podcast it is called M proper Mimi. And the M proper part of it is from constantly growing up in like you say dignified folk, you know, don't tell people your business. You know, hold it together, you know, deal with that when you get home, but don't let people see you, you know, upset crying in this, you know, situation and that and just, you know, having that face where everything is fine. I think about Smokey Robinson where he's like face what is it? What is it Tears of a Clown? Right? He's like, nobody knows that I'm, you know, crying because I'm always the life of the party, you know. So just being able to let that guard down and BM proper and see what you want when you want how you want to, you know, that's a freedom. It's a badge of freedom. That part, and I've often said to folks breaking down, that's a privilege. That's a privilege that has not been afforded to many people, especially the ones that look like us, which is kind of the roots of where this dignified black folks thing came from. Right? Yeah. Can you imagine if you know if I started you know, crying because Oh, she took my chair. Oh, my goodness. I'm like, Yeah, that's not gonna go over very well. For me. I don't think I think I'm might have to tough this out. Go get another chair. Did you see the movie The Help? Yes. You know what this reminds me. Do you remember that scene where the lady went and asked her employer for an advance on her salary because something was due I want to say like her son's tuition I vaguely remember. And the lady. She basically told her no, but then lectured her on how it was for her benefit that she didn't give her the money because God wants her to be hardworking. I'm refreshing the audience's memory of the scene. Back to what we were talking about being emotional. Imagine that she was emotional and escenario. Yeah. Oh my god. Most of us are just a generation away from that. Yeah. I mean, you want to keep it a buck. It's the truth. Yeah. I can remember my mother talking about how I think she was trying to open a bank account or something like that. And they're like Oh, your husband needs to be here with you. I was like, What year was this? And it was not in the 60s, you know, this is still like the 80s. And I'm like, Excuse me, like, that doesn't sound right to me. There's a little bit of discrimination in there. Also, you have to hold it together, you know, you can't like show that emotion, then, you know, they'll think something's wrong. This one got to take her away. I remember being in a work scenario, with a person. We're working on a project together. Let's say it was you maybe, hey, maybe you're working on this part. Did you do that part yet? Why are you asking me about that? Okay, um, maybe I just need to know yes or no, because what I'm doing is contingent on you finishing your part. Is it done? When is it gonna be done? Baby, the way I could tell you, it was an HR bout my tone. Oh, my. I was like, I remember sitting there with HR. I was like, You know what, I'm gonna have fun. We're gonna have fun. Now, I understand. We want this conversation to be about my tone. However, when I asked her about the work, it wasn't done. When I asked her the second time, it wasn't done. When I asked it a third time, and she started complaining is still wasn't done. And yet and still today, is it done? Oh, but this can be about my tone. Right? I just want to call out that fact. It's still not done. Worried about somebody's tears over there. And what you need to be worried about is this company and getting the work done. Like, we're not here to make friends like, this is not me and my BFF at work chopping it up, like, No, I'm here to work and to get it done. Like even still, you know, they're sharing pictures and talking about the holiday break. And I'm like, no show. But you got to see the insights. Oh, man. Yeah, look, no child at all. So like, now that we're all the way over here, let's talk about diversity. Because I know that is something that's super important to you. Yeah. Why is that other than being a woman of color? Is there another reason why that's something of importance to you. A lot of times when we're trying to look for solutions, and China, you know, find alternatives to whatever this is. And again, my mom was a mathematician. So that's learning math. Yes. So she was having a math and our mama had to be on point. But it really taught us how there's always more than one solution to a problem. So for me, diversity is also solving those problems. So you need to have diversity to come up with different experiences that people have been, and that they can contribute to finding a problem that no one else has thought about before. So I mean, I think it's, you know, important that we have that diversity, you know, between women and different cultures as well, so that we can bring in some fresh ideas to whatever it is that we're working on. Yeah. I think it's so important as well, you know, one of the things that we mentioned in Oh, my goodness, a season two episode, I think it's becoming you. We talked about how black people we are accustomed to being the only in a space. Right, right. And I feel like it's our generation that might be hopefully, last generation of being the only in a space. Yeah, profitable, right, because we're used to it to a certain extent, especially once you reach a certain level, within corporations, but there's a time we have to take our place. And I think it's just as important for these companies, as they're hiring people and trying to improve their diversity. You know, everyone just wants to say the word the buzzword. And, but retention is equally as important because like you say, we don't want to be the only in these situations. And whether it's a small entrepreneurship company consulting company, or if it's a big organization, we want to be able to say that we can keep the diverse, you know, talent that we're hiring, and bring it on board, because then they will also, you know, help to make sure that others who come in have a path forward or someone to talk to and, you know, hopefully keep everybody working there longer. Absolutely. And I think, you know, for the case for diversity, we need to be that voice at the table because so often I don't think it's intentional racism, I think it is people think about what they think about and and what they know, and what they know, right? I don't think about tomatoes all the time. So Thus, I am not thinking about how to incorporate them. And I think the same holds true for us as well. You know, if we want to be part of the equation, we got to show up as our 13%, as we are in society, within the boardroom, within the operating room, as mechanics, like, Come on y'all. Yeah, at every stage, you know, and, and, and one thing that I've been working on a lot lately has been not just getting people in the door, but also exposing them to like, what are those other, you know, positions, different levels in the company that they may be able to advance to, because, you know, sometimes, like, we were saying, before you get into a role you get into position, you could be there 15 years in this same role or position, and not even know that there's another thing that you could have applied to, you know, shame on us for, you know, not communicating that to our employees. But, you know, we want to be sure that people know what other positions are out there that they can get those talents and skills to work for them, too. I think that's another thing. You know, we can talk about this all day, that could be a whole episode about cultural awareness. You know, in that same regard, in that conversation we were talking about last season, we're talking about, you know, they don't really know anything about our culture. Like, you know, one of the guests was talking about how she explains about her hair and how she doesn't want to be I was like, I don't have patience for that. But are people who can do? Yeah. I don't explain Google information like, like, I love to just pretend like I don't know what they're talking about, you know, and they're talking about the holidays. And I'm like, Oh, I'm gonna celebrate Kwanzaa. And then they're like, Oh, what's that? Like, oh, I'm sure I could Google something and share it with you guys. Like, oh, I know what I'm doing. But if you want to know about it, you know, I'll show you a picture or something I found on Google. Oh, my gosh. I remember having this conversation at work. And because I was from New York, I got tired of telling them I'm from Long Island, which is completely different from the city like I'm from Long Island. Oh, I'm from Long Island, but it's whatever. Yeah. Shout out to the 516. So anyway, I had a white lady at work. Explain to me how central park was swamps. Now mind you. My family's been in New York for generations. I was like, actually, it was tenements. It was buildings where black people live that they knocked down to make a park where you can go and jog. Right? No, it wasn't it was swamps. So I googled the article and I sent it to her. I was like, my grandfather lived there. Like I'm not telling you something like gosh, yeah. And it was still like, What are you talking about? Like, okay, man by you're committed to being ignorant? Yeah, we're like, I can't argue with full so you go out you go on and go about your day then. But I don't have patience with them. I do not have patients with us. Thank you so much. You have been a wonderful guest. We have talked about so many things. We've talked about diversity. We have talked about women's empowerment. You have such a beautiful spirit free spirit. Oh, I love that. You love friends. Tell people how they can connect with you. Absolutely. You guys can find me just about anywhere as improper Mimi that's improper with an M and then PR o p e is so improper meanie website, you know, YouTube, Instagram, all that good stuff. And yeah, if you're interested in learning more about occupancy planning as a professional career, you can always look at Michelle Jackson on LinkedIn. Thank you so much, friends. Thank you guys for listening. I love you We out. Wasn't that a great interview pulled up before you grab your hat and head out. Make sure you make your way to facebook and join the fail yourself out pod Facebook group. That's where you'll find your virtual co workers, luxuriating and chatting. Thank you so much for listening. And if you enjoy the show, please leave a review. That's how we keep the lights on. If you're on social media, follow your girl Candice with a K Whitaker and you know what, I'd love to hear from you with that. I love you. And I mean it because there are people who hate in the world for no reason. I choose to love for no reason. I believe as the great Martin Luther King Jr. said hate is too great a burden to bear so I choose to love He shall

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